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I just popped in to MAD and saw Smac's thread A Quick Question Re: Comparing a Goose to a Penguin.

I almost cease to be amazed at the level literal apologetics drops to.

Joseph Smith obviously didn't fully understand the meaning of "horse". In Alma 18 "horses" actually means "tapirs"?:

9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a great feast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.
10 Now when king Lamoni heard that Ammon was preparing his horses and his chariots he was more astonished, because of the faithfulness of Ammon, saying: Surely there has not been any servant among all my servants that has been so faithful as this man; for even he doth remember all my commandments to execute them.

2 Nephi 12:7:

7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.

Did tapirs pull chariots? Were Tapirs domesticated like horses in any culture?

A domesticated tapir may not come when you call its name and it won't walk on a leash, but it's far from being stupid.

But they were domesticated to pull chariots?

Water-loving, a tapir not only swims well, but has the ability to walk on the bottom of ponds and rivers. It's often said that tapirs are "docile," but they may also throw tantrums, during which they will sometimes gnash and bite.

To conclude, tapirs represent amazing adaptations which in turn make them an essential part of their own environment. However, because of their quiet and secretive nature and their remote locality, tapirs have remained hidden and virtually unknown in human circles for thousands of years. Even today, little is known about the tapir or its environment. While the tapir's unique adaptations have helped it to survive in its environment, as in many other cases, human activity and technology has led to the decline of the magnificent animal, and the tapir may disappear before its importance is fully understood. If more effort is not taken on the part of humans to study the tapir so as to be able to better protect it, the tapir may disappear forever into history and obscurity, further abetting the deterioration and destruction of the tropical rain forests in the process.

But have no fear, the tapir was domesticated like horses among the Nephites, pulled chariots, and were obedient to "man" after being "domesticated".

John Sorenson fully accepts that horses didn't exist in ancient Mesoamerica. Of the tapir he wrote:

While some species of tapir are rather small and look like pigs, the Mesoamerican variety--Baird's Tapir--can grow to be nearly six and a half feet in length and can weigh more than six hundred pounds. A modern government report indicates that

The tapir is docile toward man and hence management of the animal is relatively easy. An indigenous person describes the tapir as follows: "The animal is very sociable. Taken as a pup, one can easily tame it; it knows how to behave near the house; it goes to eat in the mountain and then returns to sleep near the house."27

Maybe this "indigenous person" was one in a million?

There has to be a connection in comparing geese and penguins to horses and tapirs in the Book of Mormon.

How ridiculous do attempts to save the Book of Mormon as "history" really get? It's nothing but a circus.

Smac was trying to be smart throughout this thread, by not revealing what his comparisons meant, but still gave a hint:

I'll explain why I am asking this after I get a few responses (though I think some of you may be able to guess what I'm doing).

-Smac

I wouldn't advise anyone to hire Smac as their lawyer. But he'd make a "great" Sunday School teacher shaping young minds before they become more critical.
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I also refer you to beastie's website Mormon Mesoamerica on Horses.

In fact, the information I read seemed to contradict the idea for two main reasons. One is that the tapir is not a herd animal, and second is that the tapir is a shy animal that can demonstrate extreme behavior under captivity.

The section which refers to the farmers using them to pull ploughs has been cited as support for the possibility that the tapir was the Book of Mormon “horse”, yet the sentence specifically states that there have been few attempts to domesticate tapirs, and it’s only in the last century some Brazilian farmers attempted to do so. This was completely omitted from the FARMs article, which I find misleading. If human beings who have lived in the same areas as tapirs for centuries rarely domesticate them, this tells us something about their suitability for domestication.

My sources are a bit different, but they confirm the same thing.

This is an easy one. God just poofed domesticable tapirs into existence for the Nephites, then poofed them out of existence for everybody else. He can poof dinosaur fossils into "7,000" year old strata, so why not?

Poof!

God does not "poof". God is bound by the same laws of physics as anyone else. God uses naturally occurring phenomena in creating his miracles. God... does... not... "poof". Magicians poof.

God does not "poof".

C'mon Noah. You know I don't work that way.

Its always interesting to see a thread populated by what might otherwise appear to be educated adults begin from and then descend farther into the intellectual level of a Walter Martin pamphlet from the 1970s.

Move along, nothing to see here...

Droopy wrote:Its always interesting to see a thread populated by what might otherwise appear to be educated adults begin from and then descend farther into the intellectual level of a Walter Martin tract from the 1970s.

Move along, nothing to see here...

Don't take life so seriously, Droppy, you'll go mad.

Droopy wrote:Its always interesting to see a thread populated by what might otherwise appear to be educated adults begin from and then descend farther into the intellectual level of a Walter Martin pamphlet from the 1970s.

Name me one thing said in this thread so far that is untrue.

bcspace wrote:

God does not "poof".

C'mon Noah. You know I don't work that way.

Cute, but inaccurate.

harmony wrote:God does not "poof". God is bound by the same laws of physics as anyone else.

Harm,

If God is bound by the same laws of physics I'm bound by, I think he poofs.


(even tapirs poof when you cinch a saddle on them)

I digress..