Another "Problem of Evil" Question.

[_Ray A]

Just a few minutes ago I received an email from a friend who has Christian beliefs. The email was only a couple of lines, with this one in it:

Dear God, I pray for the cure of cancer. Amen

This got me thinking, what would be so difficult about God taking a few seconds to reveal a cure for cancer to a medical researcher? We've found cures for lots of other diseases, like polio, TB, and we can now even do heart and lung transplants. Has any of this progress come because of "revelation from God", or just human insight? If the former, then why the divine delay in a cure for cancer?

And don't forget the Black Death.

One of the groups that suffered the most was the Christian church. It lost prestige, spiritual authority, and leadership over the people. How? The church promised cures, treatment, and an explanation for the plague. They said it was God's will, but the reason for this awful punishment was unknown. People wanted answers, but the priests and bishops didn't have any. The clergy abandoned their Christian duties and fled. People prayed to God and begged for forgiveness. After the plague, ended angry and frustrated villagers started to revolt against the church. The survivors were also enraged at doctors, who didn't cure patients, but said they could.

Is it any wonder that some have said that "the problem of evil" is God's biggest credibility problem?

In the off-topic forum I related about the death of an old friend from cancer. She was a superfit athelete and marathon runner who competed in three Olympics and held the Australian women's record for the marathon. She would never even take asprin for a headache nor ingest anything harmful to her body, and had no history of cancer in her family. The wife and mother of three young children, a Christian who attended a local Church, was dead from cancer at 41. Her brother was run over and killed by a drunk driver a few years ago, while only in his twenties. Their mother's comment, "this is too much".

Life is nothing but a lottery. Enjoy the sunshine while it lasts.
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[_harmony]

Cancer is not just one disease. Each is different.

And sadly, we know how to prevent almost all cancers. We just choose to live the way we live... and we continue to die because of it.

[_Ray A]

And sadly, we know how to prevent almost all cancers. We just choose to live the way we live... and we continue to die because of it.

How do we prevent it in the case I described, harm?

In the off-topic forum I related about the death of an old friend from cancer. She was a superfit athelete and marathon runner who competed in three Olympics and held the Australian women's record for the marathon. She would never even take asprin for a headache nor ingest anything harmful to her body, and had no history of cancer in her family. The wife and mother of three young children, a Christian who attended a local Church, was dead from cancer at 41. Her brother was run over and killed by a drunk driver a few years ago, while only in his twenties. Their mother's comment, "this is too much".

My grand uncle lived to 100 years old, while smoking roll-your-owns and drinking whiskey everyday.

???

[_harmony]

And sadly, we know how to prevent almost all cancers. We just choose to live the way we live... and we continue to die because of it.

How do we prevent it in the case I described, harm?

I don't deal in individual cases, Ray. I have to deal with large numbers of cases... statistics drive the research.

A random pesticide? An unfortunate encounter with second hand smoke? Did you have laws that demanded all indoor air be smokefree years ago when she was being exposed? Rogue estrogen teaming up with the occasional glass of wine?

Any number of environmental things can cause cancer. They just usually don't. But when they do, people die.

My grand uncle lived to 100 years old, while smoking roll-your-owns and drinking whiskey everyday.

???

So did George Burns, but that doesn't comfort the 400,000 people who die every year from tobacco related diseases.

Did you know that for every 200,000 men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, 11,000 of them die? And for every 200,000 people who are diagnosed with lung cancer, 11,000 of them live? It's a curious stat, but timely. And unfortunately, although the mortality rate dropped (minisculely) for the second year in a row, it doesn't help the families who lose people.

Live by the rules and lower your risk. But nothing in life is riskfree, and when dealing with cancer, it's sometimes a crap shoot.

Why did my 14 year old son have it? Where did it come from? Why him? No one knows. No one could explain it to me. From that point on, we were a family of survivors and caregivers, no longer part of those untouched by cancer. We took up the fight 22 years ago; we still fight today... and we rejoice when the numbers go down, even a little bit.

[_Ray A]

I don't deal in individual cases, Ray. I have to deal with large numbers of cases... statistics drive the research.

I don't at all disagree with the figures. There are risk factors that increase the risk of cancer, but there still has to be a genetic component that sets it off. If that were not the case, then people who smoke to 100 should all get it, but many don't.

An unfortunate encounter with second hand smoke?

I know people who got cancer from suspected second-hand smoke, while their smoking partners who blew the smoke didn't. LOL.

Did you have laws that demanded all indoor air be smokefree years ago when she was being exposed? Rogue estrogen teaming up with the occasional glass of wine?

Wine in moderation does nothing except lower cholesterol, and decreases the risk of heart disease.

Any number of environmental things can cause cancer. They just usually don't. But when they do, people die.

Quite true, like carbon dioxide fumes from - cars. But the genetic vulnerability has to be there in the first place.

Did you know that for every 200,000 men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, 11,000 of them die? And for every 200,000 people who are diagnosed with lung cancer, 11,000 of them live? It's a curious stat, but timely. And unfortunately, although the mortality rate dropped (minisculely) for the second year in a row, it doesn't help the families who lose people.

Live by the rules and lower your risk. But nothing in life is riskfree, and when dealing with cancer, it's sometimes a crap shoot.

Very true. So is that "God's doing"? Or just nature?

[_Jason Bourne]

Cancer is not just one disease. Each is different.

And sadly, we know how to prevent almost all cancers. We just choose to live the way we live... and we continue to die because of it.

Uh hardly. Sure we know that some things can contribute to risk for cancers. But to say we know how to prevent most is nonsense.

Ray, this is a thought provoking topic and one that challenges my faith in God more than anything. The only answer I have is if there is a God he never promised us a life of ease. In fact my personal view is he planned it to be really hard and the challenges are what will bring us to the next level of existence after this life. Of course that is certainly a belief couched in LDS theology. But that is my faith only. I do not know.
And As a cancer survivor that had a fair chance of losing my battle with the type I had I often wonder why I lived and a friend of mine dies withing 3 months of his diagnose with a different type of cancer. So I do have an attitude to live each day to the fullest because who knows when the end is?

And if there is a God and an afterlife I hope it is better than this life.

[_Jason Bourne]

Why did my 14 year old son have it? Where did it come from? Why him? No one knows. No one could explain it to me. From that point on, we were a family of survivors and caregivers, no longer part of those untouched by cancer. We took up the fight 22 years ago; we still fight today... and we rejoice when the numbers go down, even a little bit

Hooray and me too!!! Why your son? Because we live in a world of disease and we are mortal. Could be genetics as well. His immune system that is supposed to attack cells gone hay wire may have not been functioning well. Our bodies are machines subject to break down and failure. So for your son who knows?

Why did I get it? Maybe I was too over weight? I lived in a home of smokers my first 20 years. I worked in a steel fabrication shop as a welder when a young man and inhaled lots of foul things. But I did not have lung cancer I had colon cancer. Why have both my parents who smoked most their lives at least up to today not have any cancer? Why did I get it and they have not? When I got it while I did not wish it on them I did wonder about this.

So who knows. Why did my SIL get some odd rare auto immune disease that killed her at 38? Why do people die of whatever? Because we live in a mortal imperfect worlds where to live is a struggle and to survive a battle.

[_Ray A]

Why did I get it? Maybe I was too over weight? I lived in a home of smokers my first 20 years. I worked in a steel fabrication shop as a welder when a young man and inhaled lots of foul things. But I did not have lung cancer I had colon cancer. Why have both my parents who smoked most their lives at least up to today not have any cancer? Why did I get it and they have not? When I got it while I did not wish it on them I did wonder about this.

My ex-wife also had colon cancer too. She stopped smoking when she became a Mormon in January 1975, just before she turned 21. Never smoked after that, and even after leaving the Church she only drank alcohol on odd occasions, and when she did it would never be more than two glasses of wine or something light. No history of cancer in her family, but two major operations and chemotherapy failed to save her life. Both her parents are still alive and in their late 70s.

Here's the ironic twist. Her new husband was a lifelong (well from an early age) smoker who stopped smoking at her persuasion, but he's still alive today and I believe about 61 now.

I have a brother who died at 16, from rheumatic fever, and my other brothers and now in their mid-70s. Life is a lottery.

[_harmony]

to quote Paul Simon:

God only knows
God makes his plans
The information's unavailable to the mortal man
We work at our jobs
Collect our pay
Think we're driving down the highway when in fact
We're slip sliding away.

10 years ago we had a landmark legal case called the Master Settlement Agreement, wherein tobacco companies agreed to pay massive amounts of money to the 43 states that were suing them. I'm talking massive. A few of those states actually used that money to put together tobacco prevention programs, and protected that money from being raided by their legislatures for filling potholes, cleaning penitentiaries and balancing their always unbalanced budgets. In those states, the smoking rate in teens and adults declined significantly over several years. Unfortunately, for most of those states, they no longer have tobacco prevention programs, due to economic woes and poor planning. And guess what's happened to their smoking rates.

It's like what happened in Helena MT a few years ago. Helena is an isolated community of less than a hundred thousand people with a world-class heart facility. Their city council passed a clean indoor air policy that required all businesses, including bars and casinos, to be smokefree. 6 months later, their heart attack incidence rate had dropped significantly. Then the state government overturned the ban, saying the city had overstepped its authority, since a city cannot create a law that is more stringent than the applicable state law, and Montana did not have a clean indoor law that was anywhere near that stringent. 6 months later, the heart attack incidence rate was back where it had started.

So here we have programs that have been proven to work, that have massive data as a foundation on which to build more effective prevention programs... and on the other hand, we have legislators who aren't interested in keeping their kids alive... they're interested in their current shortfalls (which is understandable, but not comforting to insurance companies and medical facilities and professionals who deal with the high cost of treating the many many problems stemming from tobacco use, or the billions that tobacco use costs businesses every year in decreased worker production and sick days.)

We have the means to lessen our risk. We just don't apply those means.

[_harmony]

Uh hardly. Sure we know that some things can contribute to risk for cancers. But to say we know how to prevent most is nonsense.

You're right. Prevent is not the right word. However, we can seriously lessen the risk, if we follow some simple guidelines.

1. Don't smoke. If you do smoke, stop. Avoid second hand smoke. Support Clean Indoor Air legislation.

2. Eat a healthy diet.

3. Exercise.

4. Limit alcohol.

Your ethnicity and your genetics may contributes to a higher risk.

Mormons do well on 1 and 4, but fail as much as the rest of the population on 2 and 3.

We've made great strides, and there's no reason to not celebrate those accomplishments, but this is no time to sit on our laurels. We can and probably should pray for a cure, but prayer isn't going to make it happen. Research is. And funding for research is always a political nightmare.