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At least that's what Joel Osteen would have us believe. T.D. Jakes and Paula White and Joel Osteen and other Word of Faith pastors would have us believe that God is incredibly interested in making his believers wealthy. I think those greedy "ministers" are incredibly interested in making themselves wealthy.

Really, how better to pack in an audience than to "tickle their ears" with the thought that God wants them to have lots and lots of money? Pandering that message to people in a deepening economic slump seems like a low-down thing to do.

Of course, those Christians wishing to be rich must first have faith and plant a little seed money in Osteen's coffers or spend $100 on his books. And if hopeful believers pray and pay and still don't become rich or their economic situations don't improve? Well, it's because they're lacking in faith. They have only themselves to blame!

Greed is the beginning of almost all religious scams, which, in my opinion, would include Mormonism. I believe lust for money and power were Smith's motivating factors, just as they are Osteen's, and White's and Jakes's. And packing in an audience, whether by appealing to their greed, (telling them God wants them to be rich), or by appealing to their hubris, (telling them God wants them to be Gods), is a reprehensible act, one I posit done only by those who cannot possibly fear God themselves. I've long wondered if Smith was a closet atheist. Has that thought occurred to anyone else?

Jesus wants us to be rich. He wants men to become Gods. Messages that pander to our baser desires always seem to really be aimed at filling the basest desires of the messenger.

Weary of religious con-artists,

KA

You can't lump the church in with this. Joseph and Emma never even had their own home until they got to Nauvoo.

Also the ultimate goal in the church is for its people to have all things in common. The great law of consecration.

Greed is like salt--a certain amount is necessary for good health, but too much will kill you.

Gazelam wrote:You can't lump the church in with this. Joseph and Emma never even had their own home until they got to Nauvoo.

Also the ultimate goal in the church is for its people to have all things in common. The great law of consecration.

What a crock of s***.

KimberlyAnn wrote: Greed is the beginning of almost all religious scams, which, in my opinion, would include Mormonism.

No doubt about it. It's either greed or insanity. What other option is there?

KimberlyAnn wrote: I believe lust for money and power were Smith's motivating factors, just as they are Osteen's, and White's and Jakes's.

Well, in Joseph Smith's case, the desire to hump lots of women has to be in there too.

KimberlyAnn wrote: And packing in an audience, whether by appealing to their greed, (telling them God wants them to be rich), or by appealing to their hubris, (telling them God wants them to be Gods), is a reprehensible act, one I posit done only by those who cannot possibly fear God themselves. I've long wondered if Smith was a closet atheist. Has that thought occurred to anyone else?

I don't know about atheist, but I certainly don't buy the pious fraud idea either. I just think he was full of s***, and used his talent for BS to do what he did. Some people are just dicks by nature. Joseph Smith was a big dick (hence, the need for multiple partners).

TAK wrote:

Gazelam wrote:You can't lump the church in with this. Joseph and Emma never even had their own home until they got to Nauvoo.

Also the ultimate goal in the church is for its people to have all things in common. The great law of consecration.

What a crock of s***.

That Joseph Smith invented. Why would a greedy con-man want to equalize wealth to everyone including himself?

KimberlyAnn wrote:I believe lust for money and power were Smith's motivating factors, just as they are Osteen's, and White's and Jakes's.

Then why didn't he get more money? He had people willing to give up their homes, their lives, their professions, and their monogamy to come and form the Kingdom of God with him. Don't you think he could have made a palace or something instead of a Temple? Why couldn't he buy his own home? How come in his generosity when he ran a store he went bankrupt? These are not the actions of a man filled with avarice and greed. The idea that he was insane or power-mad have more credibility (though not much more).

The Nehor wrote:
That Joseph Smith invented. Why would a greedy con-man want to equalize wealth to everyone including himself?

Because he controlled who got what and he got the most including other men's wives and daughters.. The same is true for Breedum Young..

TAK wrote:

The Nehor wrote:
That Joseph Smith invented. Why would a greedy con-man want to equalize wealth to everyone including himself?

Because he controlled who got what and he got the most including other men's wives and daughters.. The same is true for Breedum Young..

Brigham Young who spent over a decade of the early days in the Church doing almost nothing but travelling and doing Missionary work with no financial support from anyone? He was after money the whole time?

But Joseph didn't control that. In fact he usually let the members decide what their excess was. I also see no evidence to suggest he got the most. Please demonstrate this. You'd think he would have got wealthy at some point.

Gazelam wrote:You can't lump the church in with this.

If by "The Church" you mean the members of the Church, then I think there are enough LDS who believe righteousness=wealth that the thought may merit some investigation.

I agree that Joseph Smith never used his position to enrich himself or his family. Money just didn't seem to be a motivating factor for him. But there can be other things just as interesting as money to people in positions of power. Especially if you think Jesus will be returning soon, bringing the end of modern society as we know it.

I would also be reticent to assume that it was Joseph's preference to remain poor. I don't think the events of Kirtland, Missouri and Nauvoo that forced his povertous state were part of the original plan.