Abusive Churches

[_Roger Morrison]

"Churches That Abuse" (Ronald M. Enroth) is a book on a subject of much public interest over many decades... Abuses range from physical through mental & emotional. Public castigation, brain washing, and mind control through threats, intimidation, manipulation, fear, withdrawl of priviledge and shunning are all common practices. As well are promises of reward for obedience, a strong motivation to believe and act as leaders command by "God's" power through His annointed ones, from local to SL leaders...

It appears that most Churches have evolved through differing levels of severity to wherever they might be on today's scale of "Abuse". Mormonism is probably one church that has left behind much of what would be called "abusive" in their history. Now having a generally clean image via "The Mormon Tab. Choir" their "Family First" and "Emergency Response" efforts, Etc...

That is, until one looks at the Ultimate power of Priesthhood Authority--they claim to have and wield for "God"... A power that supposedly binds human destiny to Mormon rituals exercised to reward or punish mortal beings commensurate with the obedience of members to Mormon decrees and covenants. LDSism claiming exclusive franchise rights, and their use of secrect rites substatantiating LDS Universal/Cosmological power as they assign selected LDS members an all but guaranteed place among the "Gods" to be a "God"... This is a unique power.

Does that script not sound absurde, preposterous and bizarre? Yes to many. No to others. To accept that part of Mormonism, without serious thought or consideration, is quite likely what most Mormons do. (We did.) After all, Mormons do have remarkable programs touching all aspects of a person's/Mormon's life. From 'Cradle-To-The-Grave Social/Spiritual Security' is promised if one obeys and pays the tax on their income. (We did.) Sound sort-of politially familiar

Rewards will follow in Heaven, if/when not on Earth. Where here they might not, because Satanic influence can Trump even the best hand dealt by "God"??? But eternity awaits with all of its promises. Small comfort to many who eventually seriously consider LDS absurdities in the light of 21st Century knowledge and reasoning. (We did)

Is the Mormon Church abusive? Not physically as some. But IMSCO it is more psychologically damaging by their claim to divine leadership, direction by Prophecy and at their perogative--by obedience to their claimed Authority--to discrimate and prejudice who will abide in their Heaven. This indoctrination makes it very difficult for some to leave Mormonism without a lot of pain and anxiety.

Others simply appreciate the good times they had in LDSism and accept the doctines as fantasia that eventually revealed itself as such, and move on as we did...

Google Abe's Books and you might buy the book for $1.00. I paid .50* at the library...
Roger
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[Alf'Omega]

There's no doubt the church (pretty much any church, given they all make crap up and hold people emotionally hostage to their claims to one degree or another) psychologically abuses their members. And it's sad and pathetic to see members become willing participants; they're little Stockholm syndrome subjects.

Religion has to be the greatest, most ingenious scam ever perpetrated on mankind. I'd like to feel sorry for the victims, but if they refuse to think (and really, all it takes is a little independent thought to realize just how foolish it all is), they only have themselves to blame.

At least there are some who don't take it all that seriously, pick and choose the stuff they buy into, and only do it for community, tradition, because they know it offers comfort even if it's bogus, etc. It's the ones that buy it all hook, line and sinker that are the interminable children/victims. Unfortunately, that's the majority of Mormons.

[_Roger Morrison]

Yes Schmo, I agree with you to some degree. Religion has been labeled as you suggest, "... the biggest scam..." Could be, but???

I, with visiting family, attended a LDS Sac. Marjorie Taylor-Greene. yesterday and was touched by the saddness of the whole setting. In time--mid 50s/60's; attitude--sombre; people--most well over age 50; few young families probably looking for shelter from a world they don't understand and are not really being helped in that matter, but are directed by leaders suffering the same malaise and/or malady...

Two Missionaries' body language spoke volumes. At each door leading into the sanctuary they slouched against the wall, or perched on the back of a pew with as much enthusiasim as you find in anyone performing a task they detest; you encounter them in many retail outlets... I passed by one who didn't greet me or offer the Program. Walked across to the other one, I greeted him and asked for "...the daily paper." "Ya mean da progr'm?"

Opening hymn, # 7, "Isreal, Isreal God is calling," as well as all of those from #1 through 100 were written before the 20th century--except 6.

Ninety-four percent were the products of minds nurtured in Hell-Fire and Pearly-Gates theology who knew nothing of modern sciences, accepted slavery and subjugation of women & youth as the norm, and found comfort in their enclaves of parochialism; what ever sect that might have been...

Sacrament was passed by militant pubescent Priesthood holders, who were complimented by the Bishop for their "...reverance when about the Lord's work..." That's 'spirituality'??? Speakers both had touchingly sad stories of accidents, sickness and divorce that the Lord's Church saw them through.

In general the experience was more Mormon than Christian and seemed to satisfy those in attendance. If it did and does, then maybe their particular needs are met. To the older and aged I think that's OK.

But, for the children socially and spiritually influenced by those aged, I have deep concerns that ancient tales, legends and mythology--IF accepted as truth--will make dealing with the reality of changing times--for the good--a difficult, disturbing and painful process that could provoke havock and discord in families where in they expect "...love at home..."

Does this challenge Mormons who sense this disparity and its probable consequences as truth does eventually prevail to reveal there is no heavenly home? Home and family are here and now, deserving of time and resources. Suggestions as to what can be done to help??
Roger
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[_Jason Bourne]

Well Roger I have to be honest and say I find the sacrament meetings I attend nothing like the gloomy setting you describe. I actually like many of the 19th century songs. Could be cause I grew up with them. My favorite is not unique to LDS and it is How Firm a Foundation. But yesterday we sang Truth Reflect Upon Our Senses by Eliza Snow. It is a fine song about not judging others.

At times the talks given can be dry and banal. But often there are some good topics and great speakers. The ward I attend has many young enthusiastic families. The wards I visit where I live are similar. Some of the branches in our stake do struggle, one s that are in some rather rural areas far from a large population base.

But all in all while I do not see staggering growth where I live nor do I expect it the wards are solid and active and provide a good spiritual base from the LDS angle for those who attend.

[_Roger Morrison]

Well Roger I have to be honest and say I find the sacrament meetings I attend nothing like the gloomy setting you describe. I actually like many of the 19th century songs. Could be cause I grew up with them. My favorite is not unique to LDS and it is How Firm a Foundation. But yesterday we sang Truth Reflect Upon Our Senses by Eliza Snow. It is a fine song about not judging others.

At times the talks given can be dry and banal. But often there are some good topics and great speakers. The ward I attend has many young enthusiastic families. The wards I visit where I live are similar. Some of the branches in our stake do struggle, one s that are in some rather rural areas far from a large population base.

But all in all while I do not see staggering growth where I live nor do I expect it the wards are solid and active and provide a good spiritual base from the LDS angle for those who attend.

Jason, I have to be honest too. I meant to add, that I didn't expect the ward I attended to be an overly common example of a Ward...but i hit submit before doing so. Thank you for adding that.

But this Ward, to me depressing, was serving its members. For which I give it credit. Obviously not without cricism... I'll get back with more thoughts later. Thanks for reading...
Roger
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[_DarkHelmet]

Religion has to be the greatest, most ingenious scam ever perpetrated on mankind.

It's not so much a scam as simply one of the oldest business ideas, along with prostitution. Unless you're the pimp or the prophet, you're getting screwed.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Jason, you said:

At times the talks given can be dry and banal. But often there are some good topics and great speakers. The ward I attend has many young enthusiastic families. The wards I visit where I live are similar. Some of the branches in our stake do struggle, one s that are in some rather rural areas far from a large population base.

But all in all while I do not see staggering growth where I live nor do I expect it the wards are solid and active and provide a good spiritual base from the LDS angle for those who attend.

Do new Ward Chapels utilize new things that are seen in other new churches? Large video screens replacing Hymn Books? Bench pews replaced with folding theatre type seats? Sloping floors? Instrument use in music? Other unique, to LDS, nuances?

Are the "...young enthusiastic families," exposed in any way to a broader more open theology? Are the Old Testament stories, IE, Genesis Creation; Universal flood; Tower of Babel, etc still meant to be taken literally?

There does seem to be "staggering growth" in many areas where evangelicals are active, especially in young families and youth... Seems good on one hand, that there is a community for support, etc... OTOH, I have concern for some of the extreme attitudes against social & scientific advancements that they promolgate...

Jesus' concept of 'Church' seems long-gone in our materialistic redemptive, personal salvationist churches that generally seem to be the status-que norm...

There is a strong movement in Australia to reform/correct Roman Catholicism that is gaining influence in that area. And of course much opposition from the Vatican. Again my question: is there any such movement within LDSism? Seems there was some discussion between LDS leaders and Gays? Any follow-up with that??? Aaannnyway, time IS on the side of truth...
Roger
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[_Jason Bourne]

Do new Ward Chapels utilize new things that are seen in other new churches? Large video screens replacing Hymn Books? Bench pews replaced with folding theatre type seats? Sloping floors? Instrument use in music? Other unique, to LDS, nuances?

No. The chapels are basically in the same format ans style they have been for my lilfetime. regular pews. Though each chapel now has a large screen that can scroll up andd down for showing church broadcasts on such as general conference and other church wide firesides. Also it is used to do multi stake stake conferences. These are GAs that speak from SLC to a stake conference that is attended by maybe 40 stakes at a time all from their locations. Sort of like a virtual area conference.

Are the "...young enthusiastic families," exposed in any way to a broader more open theology?

No not really. Standard LDS fare so to speak and even that limited to things that are not controversial.

Are the Old Testament stories, IE, Genesis Creation; Universal flood; Tower of Babel, etc still meant to be taken literally?

Yes.

There does seem to be "staggering growth" in many areas where evangelicals are active, especially in young families and youth... Seems good on one hand, that there is a community for support, etc... OTOH, I have concern for some of the extreme attitudes against social & scientific advancements that they promolgate...

I don't imagine you would like what most of the mega Church modern style congregations offer as far as their dogma goes.

[_harmony]

I doubt the church will ever embrace the type of evangelical services you're describing, Roger. LDS church services are built on a foundation of quiet reverence, broken only by the occasional screaming baby. The drums and amps of a Christian rock band playing for a Sunday service would send a jarring note heard all the way to Utah. Zion's curtains would surely rent and fall.

We celebrate small things... women praying in sacrament meeting, women being the closing speaker... that sort of thing. We remember the bad old days when women were seen and not heard, except when shushing the screaming baby as they hurried from the room.

[_Jason Bourne]

For those who think the progressive style of the EV Church is a great thing read this:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the "Protestant" 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.

Millions of Evangelicals will quit. Thousands of ministries will end. Christian media will be reduced, if not eliminated. Many Christian schools will go into rapid decline. I'm convinced the grace and mission of God will reach to the ends of the earth. But the end of evangelicalism as we know it is close.