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One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:20 pm
by _GoodK
In a long time.

I was sickened by this.

Good God.


http://www.Facebook.com/home.php#/group ... 9030750744








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Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:30 pm
by _Yoda
Um, Sweetie?

Can you clue those of us who don't have Facebook in? :wink:

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:33 pm
by _Chap
GoodK wrote:In a long time.

I really was sickened to not only learn of this "cause" but to read some of the Mormon's reasoning for it.

Good God.


http://www.Facebook.com/home.php#/group ... 9030750744


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But ... there is nothing secret about these ordinances. We know just what goes on, what the clothing looks like, and so on ... what's to 'reveal'?

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:03 pm
by _cinepro
It's a "Facebook Group" called Stop HBO from revealing sacred LDS ordinances!!!

Facebook groups range from powerfully revolutionary to the practical (HS reunions), to the meaningless:

"Students Against Backpacks with Wheels"
"I Just Tried to Ford the River and My Freakin' Oxen Died"
"It's Duck, Duck, GOOSE (not grey duck)!"
"Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi"
"People Who Grew Up With Mountains and Want To Build One In Nebraska"
"Has-Been Goosebumps Lovers"
"Against all Uggz"


It takes two seconds to start one.

Unfortunately, HBO doesn't have any advertisers, so there's no one to boycott. The only way to put pressure on them would be to get subscribers to quit. And really, with shows like "Angels in America" (which showed people in their garments), "The Sopranos", "Sex and the City", "Deadwood", and now "Big Love", what percentage of their base is made up of TBM's that would cancel over something like this?

Conversely, HBO has to continually justify the subscription cost, and the most effective way they have to do this is "buzz" for their shows. And nothing creates buzz like protests and righteous indignation. I predict HBO will do nothing but be thankful for the free publicity.

This raises another interesting question. Which is more sacred to the typical LDS: sex between a married man and woman, or the Temple ceremony? Which is worse to show on television: a naked man or woman, or the clothing from the Temple ceremony? If "sacredness" is the issue at hand, why is it just the Temple content that gets LDS so upset, and not the graphic depictions of sex and nudity that have appeared previously in the series?

As far as its effects on society, I'm much more worried about society being negatively influenced by the language, violence and sex on TV than I am about them learning how LDS dress and some of the things we do in the Temples. If HBO reveals those things which we covenant not to reveal, then I imagine someone is in super-huge trouble when God finds out who broke their covenant and let them know. But as far as I know, HBO as an entity was not under covenant to reveal anything, so I'm not sure what the hubbub is about.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:09 pm
by _GoodK
Sorry. For those out of the loop, here is a brief rundown for what this group is about. There are over 400 members.

From their description:

HBO is going to air an episode of Big Love (a show about Mormon polygamy) on Sunday, March 15th where they have hired an excommunicated LDS member who helped to reveal everything about the Temple!!! They have recreated everything within the Temple including how everything looks, what is said, and what you wear. It is absolutely appalling, please read the link below and send HBO an email or letter stating your feelings and ask them not to air it!!!

Here is the link on the article about the episode (attached there was a picture of a woman dressed in full temple clothing - but for the sake of reverence and sacredness we blocked the image out):
http://www.Facebook.com/photo_search.ph ... =182900492

Here is the link to email HBO directly:
http://www.hbo.com/apps/submitinfo/cont ... pe=biglove

Here is HBO's address, HBO is owned by Time Warner:
Time Warner Inc.
One Time Warner Center
New York, NY10019-8016
(212) 484-8000

Also, here is the link to email the FCC (Federal Communications Commissions - where you can complain about any inappropriate TV show). Write them too!!!:
https://esupport.fcc.gov/sform2000/form ... page=2000E


And here are some laughable responses. I think spending so much time here has made me forgot what the vast majority of Mormons are like:

From "Joe" at BYU:

Is anyone really surprised by this? Tom Hanks is the executive producer for the show in question and he has been very outspoken against the LDS community since the Prop 8 incident. I suppose this is his subtle retaliation...

First of all I just want to remind all faithful LDS members that this is just the beginning. The Church stuck its neck out to defend family values on a national stage against one of the most gossip-laden, vindictive, outspoken communities in the nation (Hollywood), so how can we not expect consequences like this? I am offended and protective of the blessings of the temple endowment, of course, but as the world decays and the the pillars of morality are shaken our values will increasingly polarize away from popular and socially accepted thought.

As far as action we can take goes, Chris McBride hit it on the head. Petitions do work. Also, if you have an HBO connection, cancel it. Then write a letter to HBO telling them exactly why you canceled it. Money talks.



An LDS woman named Grace had some interesting remarks:

the library of congress has on record all that transpires therin. it can be read by anyone. the point is that by making it a matter of a tv show and showing things in a skewed light it will defintely be a concern to many who do not understand. I have phoned time warner already and asked that they have a dsclaimer prior to and after the show is aired...they said they are working on this but I don't really believe them..would you?


Even better, an older gentleman named Leighton Anderson chimed in:

Here is what I wrote to HBO:

I'm offended - even angry - by your willingness to permit "Big Love" to air an episode that recreates sacred temple ceremonies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But I'm sure you feel very happy and self-satisfied about that decision, because you believe that Mormons may safely be offended. Just ask yourself if you would do the same thing to Islam. Before you bravely offend millions of Mormons, please run some cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed or something. Or does your bravery only go so far?


This gentlemen is actually suggesting that HBO mock the Muslim faith instead!

There are pages of idiotic comments, and being genuinely shocked by this group I had to chime in.

First:

With all due respect, it doesn't matter if you don't like the content of the show, if you find the temple rituals "sacred" or if you think the world will be shocked to learn about the ritualistic liturgy that goes on in LDS temples. You can chose to live in a country that allows a free press (maybe you don't like the free press, Joseph Smith Jr. did destroy a printing press before being arrested) or you can move to communist China that censors its content. This really is a shameful cause, considering all the other bad things going on in the world to be concerned about, and I don't know a single LDS person who would support this. You people should be ashamed of yourself. Yuck.



Then my message box started to fill with angry chapel Mormon emails:

From a portly lass named Megan:

So are YOU freaking kidding me? This has absolutely nothing to do with communist China you uneducated hippie. This has to do with the fact that you are taking someone who has personal problems with our Church and asking them to completely misrepresent us. Would you ask a Ku Klux Klan member to talk about blacks? No, you obviously would not. It has nothing to do with the fact that we want to control the media. We would just like it if you didn't show our very sacred ceremonies on national television. The people on that show (the polygamists) aren't even real Mormons, since we haven't practiced polygamy for over a hundred years, of which someone who actually knew anything about our religion would be well aware. We already have to put up with the fact that the show represents us as freaks engaged in illegal practices, are you really going to expect us to just put up with the extremely disrespectful things that are now going on? The media would never dare do something like this to another religion. You do realize that religions such as Buddhism, Shintoism, Judaism, etc. also have sacred temple ordinances? The civil rights groups would be all over it if they created a show portraying the extremist suicide bombers as normal Islamic members, because they are NOT. They are the exception. They are, as they are so called, the extremes. It is wrong for HBO to misrepresent and disrespect us. You want to talk about Communist China, how about we talk about civil rights? What about our rights? What about our right to speak up for our beliefs? Free speech? Freedom of religion? You want to spout off that kind of crap, make sure that you actually know what you're talking about. You think that some stupid HBO show has any sort of significance? HBO, which shows crappy, B-list movies unedited for the horny masses, you think they actually are trying to send some sort of important message? I don't think so. So hm, let's compare these two things: driving the plot of a disrespectful, politically incorrect crappy HBO show, or respecting the religious rights of legitimate Church in America? Well, Mr. Freedom to the People, think about that while your smoking pot behind the Walmart.



Cute, I know. But things start to get scary when a Mormon from San Diego named Nicholas Sorenson chimes in with some violent ideas:

i would say if someone wants to make fun of anything for a purpose that is not right should be shot...so im sure some ex LDS member that still belives in the church but just doesn't go is gonna lay down the hand....what do you know about laying on the hands


:eek:


I wrote another message to the group later:

I think I'm still in shock over this. I really can't believe that you people are serious. So what is it that entitles the Mormon church to have dominion over our media outlets? Did I miss something in the Constitution that requires us to adhere to a specific religious standard? It is absolutely shameful to attack our free press and the free media. I hate to tell you this, but temple rituals are plastered all over the internet. Anyone who knows anything about Mormon history knows exactly what goes on in the temple, probably more than most of you here. That being said, it wouldn't matter if no one knew about the temple rituals, or if HBO made the whole thing up. You people are actually trying to pull a fictional sitcom because you are so afraid of the world hearing about the temple rights. And, mind you, at a time when people are losing their homes, jobs, and lives. Great cause everyone. You clearly have your priorities in check. Yuck. Shame on all of you.


Then some angry CM's (chapel Mormons) responded:

Sara:

Ok, Eric, I will spell it out for you so that you are not under any misunderstanding. There is a difference between free press which is journalists rights to bring the truth to the public, and a show that is produced for entertainment value. Are these things already on the internet? Yes they are, mostly due to ex-members and people that wish to denegrate the church. That being said, we are not asking the show to be cancelled. We are asking that the episode in question not be aired. And we are doing this, not to try to hide the inner workings of the temple from the world, but because the temple and the ordinances therein are VERY sacred to us. And asking for this is not trying to obtain "dominion oveer our media outlets." We are simply asking for the courtesy of not displaying something so holy and sacred for the purposes of ENTERTAINMENT. And it is a little ridiculous of you to assume that we can not be capable of caring about the economy, the world, and this at the same time.



Tyler:

Eric, I don't think most of the people here want to control HBO's constitutional right. We don't want to pull the entire series, but we do want HBO to choose not to air this episode because it is extremely disrespectful and tasteless. I'm I'm sure you think you know exactly what goes on in the temple because you read it on some website that was probably put up by an ex-member. But you can't believe everything you read on the internet, and some things, when taken out of context sound worse or stranger than they actually are. And, mind you, when something sacred to a person is being soiled it is their responsibility to protect it. I'm sure you don't hold anything in this world as sacred to yourself as the LDS people hold their family and temple ordinances, so you wouldn't understand. And shame on you for making it your cause to try to bring down LDS people, who are standing up for themselves, when you could be worried about all those people who are losing their jobs, homes, and lives.


Lisa:

Boy - the media must really want to let everyone know what goes on in the temple - especially since they're not allowed in. Hmmmmmm - why aren't they?


Now, I typically don't do this sort of thing, especially on Facebook. But I rarely find myself this surprised and disgusted and I couldn't sit on my hands over this one.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:15 pm
by _cinepro
Goodk, the purpose of the group is to use capitalistic pressure (boycotts, protests etc.) to influence a private corporation's actions. As far as I can tell, the issue of "free press" or "freedom of speech" is irrelevant. No one is calling for the government to step in. Whether or not it is effective (or appropriate, or needed), the LDS in that group are acting appropriately to express their concerns.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:17 pm
by _GoodK
cinepro wrote:Goodk, the purpose of the group is to use capitalistic pressure (boycotts, protests etc.) to influence a private corporation's actions. As far as I can tell, the issue of "free press" or "freedom of speech" is irrelevant. No one is calling for the government to step in.



Really?

Description page:

Also, here is the link to email the FCC (Federal Communications Commissions - where you can complain about any inappropriate TV show). Write them too!!!:
https://esupport.fcc.gov/sform2000/form ... page=2000E



Whether or not it is effective (or appropriate, or needed), the LDS in that group are acting appropriately to express their concerns.


No, they are not.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:19 pm
by _Bond James Bond
This season was shot before the Prop 8 thing. Now next season could make hay of the issue, but this season was already in the can, having been shot over the spring and summer of 08.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:32 pm
by _cinepro
GoodK wrote:
Also, here is the link to email the FCC (Federal Communications Commissions - where you can complain about any inappropriate TV show). Write them too!!!:
https://esupport.fcc.gov/sform2000/form ... page=2000E




Ok, now it's just getting funny.

First of all, the FCC doesn't regulate pay-cable channels. HBO is classified in the same category as the Playboy channel when it comes to "inappropriate TV shows", so you can imagine their reaction when they start getting letters about an "inappropriate" show on HBO that has fully (very fully) clothed people doing something that involves talking and other non-violent, non-sexual acts.

Heck, HBO has even shown Stanley Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut", which has a much more interesting "ritual" than anything that will be on HBO. And I'll bet the FCC didn't get a single letter from LDS about that film (or the bazillions of others featuring graphic sex and nudity) shown on HBO. I assume most LDS would just change the channel and cancel their subscription.

Peculiar people indeed.

Re: One of the most disturbing Mormon causes I have seen

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:40 pm
by _GoodK
cinepro wrote:
Peculiar people indeed.


I love this response:

Well Eric, when you get married, we can all watch everything that happens in your marriage. I mean why would it mean anything to me, its not like its a secret right? If we can't keep our temples ordinances sacred, then you don't deserve to let your marriage be that way. I wonder how you would react if HBO put your wedding night on broadcast. I thought it would be a sacred and private moment for you, but I guess that fictional writers are more than welcome to you.


Is this lady really comparing a temple ceremony to sexual intercourse?

This is getting funny, but scary. There are now over 1,300 members in this group.