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The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:16 pm
by _CaliforniaKid
From MADB:

Me:
Chris Smith wrote:
Mormon Dude wrote:]Do you think the KEP will be included in one of the volumes of the Joseph Smith Papers?

They were going to be, but I think they are now planned as a separate project... probably because the apologists want to distance Joseph Smith from them and so don't want them implicitly counted among his personal "papers".

Pahoran:

Pahoran wrote:Oh, absolutely. Whatever the Mormons do, there must be a nefarious ulterior motive for it. Someone with your vast experience of publishing large collections of autographic documents can know of a certainty that there couldn't possibly be any other reason.

LoaP:

LifeonaPlate wrote:Your comment about what "apologists" intended came across as implicating devious intentions on the part of JSPP editors to the plate guy.

It's interesting, and perhaps telling, that Pahoran and LoaP assume that apologetic motives are necessarily "nefarious" or "devious". I tend to think they're sincere (albeit misguided), but I guess LoaP and Pahoran are in a better position to know. :wink:

All fun-poking aside, the subject of the KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers is an interesting one. Over at By Common Consent there is a very interesting interview posted in which the JSPP editors said the following:

Some of the KEP material has Joseph Smith handwriting and therefore meets our criteria for document inclusion. So this material will also appear in the Documents series. Other KEP manuscripts do not contain Joseph Smith’s handwriting and are of uncertain authorship. Because these documents do not meet our criteria they will not be included in the Documents series.
[...]
Joseph Smith conveyed his views on the national government to W. W. Phelps and assigned him to write them up for a publication, which then appeared under Joseph Smith’s name. Although Joseph Smith did not compose this document, he commissioned it and claimed it as his own. We will publish these types of documents (explaining in an introduction the commission and the ghost-writing).
[...]
We’ve tried to consider everything and we’ve taken a liberal approach to selection, but we do have to draw the line somewhere. And, the burden of proof rests on the demonstration of Joseph Smith authorship. Did Joseph Smith have some kind of authorial oversight controlling the production of the various KEP documents? Or was it more of a collegial endeavor? We don’t know.

This despite the fact the the Joseph Smith journals indicate he worked directly on the Alphabet and Grammar in the company of his scribes, he proudly exhibited it to visitors, he kept it in his office, he considered publishing it in the Nauvoo period, and he allowed Phelps to quote it as a demonstration of the prophet's linguistic ability in letters ghostwritten in Joseph Smith's name. I think that if the editors of the Joseph Smith Papers looked into the evidence for themselves, they'd find that the evidence for Joseph Smith's direct authorial involvement is quite clear-cut. But they appear to rely instead on the conclusions of devotees of the Nibley apologetic paradigm (presumably Hauglid).

This raises interesting questions about the non-apologetic work that apologists do in related disciplines. When Bill Hamblin works on Solomon's temple, is his research subtly influenced by apologetic concerns? What about when Dan Peterson works on Islamic texts? We are all shaped by our backgrounds and our philosophical and religious commitments, so it seems only natural that those commitments will influence all of our work in ways that are difficult to detect, even for the author himself. Editors of a project in which people with strong ideological biases are heavily involved have to be extra careful to ensure that those biases do not decide the scope or even the content of the project.

Best,

-Chris

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:47 pm
by _harmony
CaliforniaKid wrote: Editors of a project in which people with strong ideological biases are heavily involved have to be extra careful to ensure that those biases do not decide the scope or even the content of the project.

Best,

-Chris


No, they don't. They just can't be surprised when their project is ignored, ridiculed, or marginalized.

I doubt this project will gain any more respect from outsiders than anything else ever has.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:08 pm
by _Dr. Shades
CaliforniaKid wrote:
Did Joseph Smith have some kind of authorial oversight controlling the production of the various KEP documents? Or was it more of a collegial endeavor? We don’t know.

This despite the fact the the Joseph Smith journals indicate he worked directly on the Alphabet and Grammar in the company of his scribes, he proudly exhibited it to visitors, he kept it in his office, he considered publishing it in the Nauvoo period, and he allowed Phelps to quote it as a demonstration of the prophet's linguistic ability in letters ghostwritten in Joseph Smith's name.

What a disgusting display on their part.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:17 pm
by _harmony
Dr. Shades wrote:What a disgusting display on their part.


I would perhaps have used "cowardly" or "less than fully honest" display. I reserve "disgusting" for vomit and black eyed peas.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:21 pm
by _Runtu
Dr. Shades wrote:What a disgusting display on their part.


As Chris said, it's a political decision. If they were to acknowledge Joseph Smith's connection to the KEP, that would undermine the efforts of Gee et al. to completely divorce the Book of Abraham from the KEP and thus maintain the "missing scroll" theory. It opens up a can of worms they don't want to deal with.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:30 pm
by _harmony
Runtu wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:What a disgusting display on their part.


As Chris said, it's a political decision. If they were to acknowledge Joseph Smith's connection to the KEP, that would undermine the efforts of Gee et al. to completely divorce the Book of Abraham from the KEP and thus maintain the "missing scroll" theory. It opens up a can of worms they don't want to deal with.


So once again the truth is negotiable. A little more here, a little less there.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:45 pm
by _Runtu
harmony wrote:So once again the truth is negotiable. A little more here, a little less there.


Truth has always been negotiable.

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:32 pm
by _Paul Osborne
I've been in hiding for quite some time now, and will ever remain, but wanted to say hi to everyone.

I'm not happy with the way the church leaders have kept the KEP hidden from the church and in the hands of only a select few. I don't think that pleases the Lord. Church leaders are not perfect and make mistakes. I've complained to the Lord about this and he is well aware of the situation.

Oh, well, time to sign off.

Paul O

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:37 pm
by _Yoda
Paul Osborne wrote:I've been in hiding for quite some time now, and will ever remain, but wanted to say hi to everyone.

I'm not happy with the way the church leaders have kept the KEP hidden from the church and in the hands of only a select few. I don't think that pleases the Lord. Church leaders are not perfect and make mistakes. I've complained to the Lord about this and he is well aware of the situation.

Oh, well, time to sign off.

Paul O


Paul!!!! *HUGS*

Good to see you! Please stop by more often. :wink:

Re: The KEP and the Joseph Smith Papers

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:48 pm
by _CaliforniaKid
Yes, Paul, very good to see you!! You are missed here. Hope all is well with you and yours.