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I listened to yesterdays national broadcast on NPR with regards to HBO's depiction of the endowment ceremony. After listening to Neil Conans respectful dialogue on the subject, I came away with the exact same sentiment that Neil seemed to have; the people most upset by its airing did not even watch it.

There were about 5 TBM callers that all recited the sacred montra, and all 5 of them gave the same reply to Neils question, "Did you watch it?", the answer being they chose not to. The non member callers who did watch it, had a positive view of the ceremony mostly.

It was an excercise in viewing members in lock step formation. For me, the show was interesting, but served more as a view into the programmed nature of LDS reactions. Members phoning in, stated that LDS temple ceremonies required public reverence, yet temple ceremonies did not extend reverence to the religious wishes of the Jewish culture and there ancestry. Really, when it comes to redeeming the dead, how does the church respect the sacred religious views of the deceased?



http://www.npr.org/templates/player/med ... 03-19-2009



its the 3rd audio segment down "religion"

Maxrep wrote:Really, when it comes to redeeming the dead, how does the church respect the sacred religious views of the deceased?

The dead are low hanging fruit... easy pickin's. It's the living that don't do what they're told by the missionaries.

I'm surprised they haven't figured out what to do about the Low Hanging Fruit:

1. hire people to comb any and all records they can get their hands on. Not volunteers. Paid employees. Volunteers are sloppy and don't follow through. The members have already shown they have more important things to do than geneology. That way there wouldn't be situations where the same guy is baptised 15 times.

2. Open up China. There's billions of names just waiting to be baptised there. No more empty temples! Of course, they'd have to hire people to translate Chinese into English, but that's a small problem.

3. Tell the rest of the world to take it and shove it. Oh wait... that's what they're already doing to the Jews and everyone else. Well, at least they got one right.

It was an excercise in viewing members in lock step formation. For me, the show was interesting, but served more as a view into the programmed nature of LDS reactions.

I agree with you, Maxrep.

The stuff Big Love depicted was enlightening. People who aren't Mormons will probably have a better understanding of LDS temples and sympathy for the sacred importance of LDS temple worship. They [Mormons] should be secretly thankful that a secular source has done such a good job of saying things that LDS themselves aren't allowed to say.

On the other hand you have all these Mormons who claim to be offended, who compare the temple to sexual intimacy, and 99% of them didn't even watch the show because of their presuppositions about right and wrong. This is what non-Mormons are going to have a hard time understanding. This is what seems really weird if you ask me.

El Duderino wrote:On the other hand you have all these Mormons who claim to be offended, who compare the temple to sexual intimacy, and 99% of them didn't even watch the show because of their presuppositions about right and wrong. This is what non-Mormons are going to have a hard time understanding. This is what seems really weird if you ask me.

Exactly. Well put. I have an LDS friend on Facebook who posted a link to a Meridian article about the show. I responded by saying that I felt HBO did a great job in presenting the endowment. I told him that Mormons should be more offended by the Court of Love segment. His response was that he hadn't seen the episode but he appreciated my viewpoint. It's not the ceremony that most people find weird (what religious rite isn't), it's the members' insistence on its secrecy.

silentkid wrote:...it's the members' insistence on its secrecy.

Sacred, not secret. But still secret. It's a very weird attitude to outsiders, and insiders are at a loss to explain or justify it. Comparing it to marital sex hardly helps. One lady on the NPR segment emphasized that she and her husband go to the temple all the time but never, ever talk about the ceremony because it's so so super sacred. This emphasizes the weirdness, not the sacredness. And it sounds nothing like marital sex, at least not the healthy kind.

The Dude wrote:

silentkid wrote:...it's the members' insistence on its secrecy.

Sacred, not secret. But still secret. It's a very weird attitude to outsiders, and insiders are at a loss to explain or justify it. Comparing it to marital sex hardly helps. One lady on the NPR segment emphasized that she and her husband go to the temple all the time but never, ever talk about the ceremony because it's so so super sacred. This emphasizes the weirdness, not the sacredness. And it sounds nothing like marital sex, at least not the healthy kind.

I am surprised someone didn't point out that since the temple ceremony is done in a group the comparison the sexual intimacy makes it sound like an orgy. Not a good comparison I would say.

Oddly the theme of the episode was the crisis of faith that Barb was going through and her love for that faith as it relates to her life and family. She was devastated that she was going to be excommunicated. This theme, you would think would resonate with (Chapel) Mormons and they would appreciate the pain she was experiencing. Unfortunately most Mormons never saw the show but rather just focused on the three minutes.

Tarski wrote:I am surprised someone didn't point out that since the temple ceremony is done in a group the comparison the sexual intimacy makes it sound like an orgy. Not a good comparison I would say.

It was pretty clear that the lady was referring to the reverence aspect. Like, you wouldn't want stand for a peeping tom looking in your bedroom window. But then she went on to say its so reverent that she doesn't even talk to her husband about the temple. What? So it's actually not like marital sex but way, way beyond that. There is no good comparison to help outsiders understand because, quite frankly, the impulse for secrecy is irrational.

I found this a well balanced discussion.

Well done Mr. Conan.