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On the new, very excellent thread started by Cinepro, a basic discussion is underway concerning the notion that the authority for revelation in the Church has been ceded to the apologists. That is: the Brethren no longer provide new knowledge for the flock; rather, this job has been delegated to the folks at the Maxwell Institute. I think that Mr. Pro is dead-on in his analysis, and I find his argument highly persuasive.

But, what interests me for the sake of this thread is something else. In a toss-away, apparently joking remark, SilentKid said:

These new theories may come from academic channels, but they are not bereft of priesthood authority or revelation. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Peterson and Dr. Hamblin and other notable apologists have prayed for a spiritual witness of the truthfulness of their theories and have received those feelings of peace and enlightenment that they are entitled to as confirmed members of God's true church. They have felt the guiding hand of the lord in their search for explanations to difficult gospel issues. They are the new breed of preisthood authority, even Academic Authorities, which are far superior to those General ones.

While he may have been joking, I think that this is genuinely interesting, and worth pursuing. Do the apologists feel that their work is spiritual? Certainly, we have seen them bear their testimonies--both on the messageboards and in print. But, are the spiritual rituals of the Church ever included in Mopologetics? Do DCP and Hamblin ever pray specifically about Mopologetic issues---the DNA issue, for example? Personally, I assume that they do. Why wouldn't they?

Similarly, some have postulated that the top-drawer apologists were set apart by the General Authorities, and that FARMS Chairmanships and the like are actually Church callings. I also believe this is true. I believe that some members of the Maxwell Institute are actually fulfilling callings for the Church, and that, in a very real sense, they believe they are serving the Brethren on a kind of spiritual mission. I believe that hands were laid on the head of DCP and Louis Midgley, and that these brothers were called to be apologists for the Church.

Nope. Not true.

I suppose that speculation, however, passes for evidence so it must be true.

Mormon Studies is a legitimate field of study as well as Islamic Studies, Jewish Studies, Queer Studies, African-American Studies and the like. Those who toil in these areas apply what professional or amateurish skills they may possess to publish. There is no "setting apart" and whether they "pray" over what they do is no more significant than professional football players praying together before the game.

rcrocket wrote:Nope. Not true.

I suppose that speculation, however, passes for evidence so it must be true.

What's your evidence that they haven't been set apart?

Mormon Studies is a legitimate field of study as well as Islamic Studies, Jewish Studies, Queer Studies, African-American Studies and the like. Those who toil in these areas apply what professional or amateurish skills they may possess to publish. There is no "setting apart" and whether they "pray" over what they do is no more significant than professional football players praying together before the game.

This is a false analogy, since football is not a "legitimate field of study." It would have been better if you'd said, "There is no "setting apart" and whether they "pray" over what they do is no more significant than scientists praying together before they attempt to smash atoms together."

You seem to be suggesting that there is no spirituality whatsoever to Mopologetics, and that FARMS apologists pursue their tasks in a purely "academic," highly mercenary way. That is: they are serving the intellect rather than the mantle. Is that what you're saying, Bob?

Mister Scratch wrote:What's your evidence that they haven't been set apart?

That's right. Throw out purely unsupported speculation and then when somebody points out that it is raw speculation, demand proof to the contrary.

Well, somehow I don't think I'm going to be able to prove that aliens didn't visit Roswell, NM.

rcrocket wrote:

Mister Scratch wrote:What's your evidence that they haven't been set apart?

That's right. Throw out purely unsupported speculation and then when somebody points out that it is raw speculation, demand proof to the contrary.

When teachers are hired at BYU, they are often given a "sit-down" with one of the Brethren. Given the even higher status of the apologists---doctrine and revelation-wise---I think that my belief is entirely reasonable. Perhaps DCP or one of the other big shots will turn up to tell us otherwise, either here or on MAD.

rcrocket wrote:Nope. Not true.

I suppose that speculation, however, passes for evidence so it must be true.

Mormon Studies is a legitimate field of study as well as Islamic Studies, Jewish Studies, Queer Studies, African-American Studies and the like. Those who toil in these areas apply what professional or amateurish skills they may possess to publish. There is no "setting apart" and whether they "pray" over what they do is no more significant than professional football players praying together before the game.

But nothing you write here suggests that Mopologists aren't "set apart" or that there isn't or couldn't ever be a real need for set-apart Mopologists. Being a president of a university is a profession that could be accompanied by prayer and fasting to do the job well or not, but in at least one case, being the president of a university is also a calling or part of a calling. Also, outside of Mormonism Jesuit Priests can do scholarship as part of their function as priests.

Mister Scratch wrote:When teachers are hired at BYU, they are often given a "sit-down" with one of the Brethren. Given the even higher status of the apologists---doctrine and revelation-wise---I think that my belief is entirely reasonable. Perhaps DCP or one of the other big shots will turn up to tell us otherwise, either here or on MAD.

You're mistaking a fishbowl for an ocean again.

Every faculty member is interviewed by a general authority. So what?

You've branded me as an apologist. After all, I am twice published. Nobody gave me a sit down. There's some evidence. Nobody grilled me for orthodoxy before I published.

rcrocket wrote:Every faculty member is interviewed by a general authority. So what?

You've branded me as an apologist. After all, I am twice published. Nobody gave me a sit down. There's some evidence. Nobody grilled me for orthodoxy before I published.

Come on, Bob. You aren't anywhere near the top of the Mopologetic totem pole. We're talking about the "Big Boys"---DCP, Midgley, Gee---guys like that.

pray specifically about Mopologetic issues---the DNA issue, for example? Personally, I assume that they do. Why wouldn't they?

A dangerous line of inquiry here, my friend. If this is so, then do they pray about other things too? For instance, missionaries tract, and pray about areas to knock on doors. So, would an ordained apologist perhaps pray about what critics to skewer? Who to launch campaigns against?