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Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:04 am
by _aussieguy55
http://fora.tv/2009/03/07/David_Plotz_- ... chapter_05Interesting site on the stories of the Old Testament - I have always found the story of Samson strange. To me he seems like a really dumb jerk. Some woman asks him about the what would hold him down despite his strength and he offers suggestions. He wakes up and finds himself in ropes. Duh!!! The story of Esau and his exchange with Jacob. I have often felt for Esau. The Rape of Dinah is another strange story.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:11 pm
by _Yoda
This is a great topic! I'm moving it to Terrestrial where it will get more comments.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:22 pm
by _Jersey Girl
I wonder how many of these stories are symbolic legends. For example, the Tower of Babel. I know that fundie Christians take the story as being literal. I tend to think that the storytellers used the ancient practice of constructing ziggarats (don't check my spelling!) as the centerpiece for a story that provided their explanation for the diversity of language.
There's so much rich symbolism in the Old Testament, I doubt we'll ever begin to understand the full intent of those who transmitted these stories from generation to generation.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:56 pm
by _harmony
Why do we still read it at all? It's full of man's inhumanity to man, his pride, his greed, his foolishness, his fear and envy of women, etc. etc. If we read it as a Do Not Do This book, it might be helpful, but too many people take it as history, God's word, Truth (for want of a better word), and it's not history, sure as hell isn't God's word, and it's little nuggets of truth are buried so deep, they are useless.
Yet we still to this day fight wars over it, good men and women die because of it, the most inhumane practices are justified because of it.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:02 pm
by _cinepro
harmony wrote:Why do we still read it at all? It's full of man's inhumanity to man, his pride, his greed, his foolishness, his fear and envy of women, etc. etc.
You mean like
this?
Mistranslated Myths Of Nomadic Desert Shepherd Tribe Taken At Face Value
PITTSBURGH, PA–Arcane, poorly translated scrolls etched by an unknown hand thousands of years ago were taken at face value Monday, when Pittsburgh orthodontist Donald Reuss consulted an English translation of a Hebraic manuscript titled "Deuteronomy" for guidance in a personal crisis.
"I was at my wits' end over what to do about my failing marriage," Reuss said. "Marjorie and I thought about counseling, therapy, even divorce. In the end, though, I got the help I needed from a book of stories inscribed by an itinerant Middle Eastern shepherd many millennia ago."
Reuss said he learned of the antediluvian text from a friend following an argument with his wife. "Bob said he had a book that I should read," Reuss said. "I figured it would be some sort of self-help book written by one of those professional therapists born in the latter half of the 20th century. But to my surprise, it was a contemporary printing of a historical and genealogical account of the growth and persecution of the Jewish people, originally written in ancient Hebrew. And you know what? Not only were the tales relevant to my situation, they're completely true!" .....
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:06 pm
by _Jersey Girl
harmony wrote:Why do we still read it at all? It's full of man's inhumanity to man, his pride, his greed, his foolishness, his fear and envy of women, etc. etc. If we read it as a Do Not Do This book, it might be helpful, but too many people take it as history, God's word, Truth (for want of a better word), and it's not history, sure as hell isn't God's word, and it's little nuggets of truth are buried so deep, they are useless.
Yet we still to this day fight wars over it, good men and women die because of it, the most inhumane practices are justified because of it.
I think the big mistake Christians and others make when reading the Bible is to take everything at face value based on our contemporary experiences. The Bible is FILLED with Hebrew symbolism. Who the heck really, genuinely, understands the nature of those ancient tribes? Who really understands their symbolism? There are entire books and websites devoted to translating Hebrew symbolism.
We don't stop a moment to grasp that we're reading something with references to an ancient place and time that is filled with symbolism we don't understand.
A poor but handy analogy would be me referring in text to "the Jersey side". How would someone interpret that thousands of years from now? Would they know what it means? Does anyone HERE know what it means? It's more of a colloquialism that would be best understood by folks in that particular geographical region. Same thing with the Old Testament refs.
What I don't like is what you referred to above. People take the Bible, read it at face value, interpret it based on contemporary times and then use it to beat the living hell out of other people.
That's gotta be wrong.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:15 pm
by _harmony
It's not just the Old Testament either. It's the Koran too. Their genesis is the same, the root is the same, yet we waste billions of dollars and the lives of our young men and women for what?
We don't fight wars over ancient Egyptian pharaohs. We don't fight wars over against Chinese war lords. We don't fight wars over ancient Mayan or Aztec tribes. Why is it that this little insignificant tribe is allowed to still influence things like public policy, international commerce, and world peace? (I need to go watch Miss Congeniality, so I can hear all about World Peace on a dreary Saturday morning).
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:35 pm
by _huckelberry
Are we fighting wars over the Old Testament? I am sorry I do not understand. I am not remembering any such wars. Perhaps in view would be the Arab Isreal wars? These seem to be a result of the historical fact that Rome removed the Jews from their country in the first century AD and Jews, lacking a safe place to live, have desired to go back ever since. Perfectly natural reasons they would want to do this, perfectly natural reasons Arabs are not happy about it. None of this is Old Testament, ar far as I can see it is real history AD.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 pm
by _huckelberry
I am trying to image the assumption or starting point that would experience seeing Samson as a dumb jerk as some sort of suprise or Bible problem.
Yes Samson is dumb, is this a suprise? How is it a problem? I thought it was clearly a part of the story.
Re: Bible - especially the Old Testament - problems?
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:39 pm
by _The Nehor
harmony wrote:Why do we still read it at all? It's full of man's inhumanity to man, his pride, his greed, his foolishness, his fear and envy of women, etc. etc. If we read it as a Do Not Do This book, it might be helpful, but too many people take it as history, God's word, Truth (for want of a better word), and it's not history, sure as hell isn't God's word, and it's little nuggets of truth are buried so deep, they are useless.
Yet we still to this day fight wars over it, good men and women die because of it, the most inhumane practices are justified because of it.
The Book of Mormon is largely a Do Not Do This book too. God tends to tell us what not to do regularly and often.