DiscussMormonism.com

When the Lexus ownership manual gets canonized, Wade may have a point. Until then, as many of us suspected, this thread is just Wade being Wade.

Wade Englund wrote:To me, the same principle applies to having faith in the restored gospel of Christ. It should rest on whether the gospel is what it claims to be and will produce the results it is designed to produce, and not on certain supposed "negative" aspects of Church history, or the the suppose lack of disclosure thereof, or debatable questions raised about owner's manual authorship.

In that case, Wade has no reason to not join the Scientologists.

Dr. Shades wrote:

wenglund wrote:I am attempting to compile a top 10 - 20 list of issues that have lead to loss of LDS faith . . .

I can hook you up with that.

. . . and the material from critics/anti-Mormons that was instramental therein.

That part won't be necessary, since you'll just dismiss it anyway.

Could you provide me with your personal list so I can aggrigate the responses? Or, if such a list has already been vetted, could you point me to it?

John Dehlin has already beaten you to it. For the definitive presentation, see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5SxnVs

Hi Shades,

I don't have an hour to sit through the video. Could you just tell me what he lists as the top ten or so reasons?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I grew up in the 50s. I was a compliant passive little Mormon girl and never knew there were any issues with history or doctrine. As I became an adult and saw how big the world is outside SLC, I realized the Mormon concept of God made no sense.

A loving, omniscent, omnipotent God would not design a church that required so much legalism and so many rules. He would not say that this Earthly life was so important in our progression, and then deny all knowledge of His one true church to 99.9% of the humans who ever lived. And I realized I didn't want to worship anyone whose ego demanded it.

I saw quite suddenly that SLC Mormons weren't the special group I had been taught, at least in anyone's eyes but their own. It took a while longer to realize all religion is equally illogical, and that God is a concept made by Man.

It has been beyond amazing to come back 40 years later and learn about the problems with the history, doctrine and institution of Mormonism.

Edit to add:

A second reason was that I decided to seek truth instead of confirmation of what I was told was truth. I think that is the underlying reason for most of us.

I appreciate the responses thus far. I found it interesting that out of the 8 respondents who listed faith-collapsing issues, only two mentioned influencial material (David Wright on Isaiah, Mormon Enigma, in Sacred Loneliness). I would be hard pressed to consider any of these three as "anti-Mormon material", which makes me wonder if anti-Mormon material is relevant to people's loss of LDS faith, let alone relevant to the verity of the LDS faith.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Do you consider Simon Southerton an "anti-Mormon"?

http://www.signaturebooks.com/dna.htm

The analogy that buying the church’s truth claims is like buying a car falls down in so many ways, it’s difficult to decide where to start, but I think it’s enough to say that how the imperfections of a business owner affects his product is not at all the same as a how the character and reliability of a “prophet” who is supposed to be the conduit to supernatural being affects that claim.

If anyone actually thinks these are parallel ideas… well, they’re setting themselves up to be fooled by a conman. Obviously.

And it’s just amazing to me how many people think “usefulness” is supposed to somehow equate “truth” (although I don’t find the teaching of the church to be all that useful. If that’s the benchmark to go by, it fails once again, true or not). You might as well say, “I know this placebo is true.”

wenglund wrote:...which makes me wonder if anti-Mormon material is relevant to people's loss of LDS faith, let alone relevant to the verity of the LDS faith.

There's a difference between "relevant" and "the catalyst." The road toward understanding the church isn't what it claims begins with independent thought, a willingness to think outside the confines of Mormon dogma, and investigation. "Anti-mormon material" is simply a tool to walk down the road toward enlightenment.

And only a dogmatic, completely brainwashed TBM could actually consider the material not "relevant." That's all part of the mental armor it takes to protect fragile faith. Deny it's important.

..In short, she has at least some faith that the Lexus RX is "true".

What Wade is not telling you is that the automobile is not a Lexus RX 300 at all.

It's a rusted out Chrysler K-car pulled from a ravine. Oh sure, someone slapped some lipstick on it, the engine turns over and their are some shiny new $10 emblems that say Lexus..

The seller will soon be indicted for fraud.

Fortunately, there are laws that govern the sale of automobiles.

Wade, you are misrepresenting your product and intentions. That's not nice.

The intent of this thread is to vet a list of issues and material that were critical to the loss of people's faith. I am not looking for exit stories or extensive dissertations about personal loss of faith, nor am I looking to debate the MaDB thread.

However, if anyone is interested in intellegently and openmindedly discussing here the issue I raise in the MaDB thread, then feel free to open a new thread.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-