Most valiant for last, how come so much evil?

[_JoetheClerk]

LDS theology is that the most Valiant spirits were saved until our time, the last of the last days. With all these great and valiant ones coming down shouldn't we see more discerning folk choosing good over evil with the great spiritual gifts they should have? The opposite seems to be happening with all the 'valiant spirits' choosing to be bad guys instead.

Did 'the Lard' make some mistakes saving all these valiant ones for last?

[_Inconceivable]

LDS theology is that the most Valiant spirits were saved until our time, the last of the last days.

Isn't it the same Mormon God that has sent His most crappy non-mormon children to the same dispensation in order to necessitate saving His most valiant Mormons for the same time?

Wow. 5 billion crappy spirits, 4 million most valiant chosen annointed and blessed favorite Mormon spirits.

Huh?

Now, of course, I was saved for the last days (well, up till about 3 years ago). But now I'm a crappy non-mormon. Does this mean I would have faired better to be born in the second to the last days like maybe my faithful (but obviously less valiant) grandparents? hmm.

This sucks, I'm going to want my phone call and a good Jewish lawyer.

[_The Nehor]

That is not Mormon theology.

The teaching is that the Lord reserved some of his most faithful servants for the last dispensation. Overexcited youth leaders have often blown this teaching way out of proportion. The idea presented here that God sent the worst first in a group and the best all at the end is something that I suspect the OP invented in their own mind.

[_cinepro]

LDS theology is that the most Valiant spirits were saved until our time, the last of the last days.

As Nehor said, CFR.

Obviously, we believe in there being some spirits who were "noble and great", but I've never heard it stated from a doctrinal position that the people being born today are inherently more valiant than spirits of past generations.

Heard it tons at EFY though.

[_Pokatator]

I guess this is another subject for what is doctrine and what is not.

But I was taught this in seminary in the 60s.

Found these:

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1

James J. Hamula, “Winning the War against Evil,” Liahona, Nov 2008, 50–53

Now, my young friends of the Aaronic Priesthood, you are these valiant and noble sons of our Father! You are the strength of the Lord’s house, His warriors! You are those who chose good over evil and who exhibited “exceedingly great faith” and “good works.” And because of your personal history, you were entrusted to come to the earth in these last days to do again what you did before—to once again choose good over evil, exercise exceedingly great faith, and perform good works—and to do so in behalf of the kingdom of God on the earth and your fellowman!

http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1

George P. Lee, “Staying Unspotted from the World,” Ensign, May 1978, 27
Image

You young people are among the most valiant, among the cream of all the spirits in the premortal life; and God has reserved you to come forth in these perilous times, the last days, for a divine purpose. The choice spirits coming to earth today were choice in the premortal existence before they came here. The reason they were choice in heaven is that they were obedient, valiant, and lived with exactness. In heaven, you young people, you lived by sight; in other words, you saw with your spirit eyes, you saw God, you saw Jesus Christ, your elder brother, and you saw Satan.

There are many other quotes that say and mean the same but do not use the exact word "valiant".

[_cinepro]

George P. Lee, “Staying Unspotted from the World,” Ensign, May 1978, 27
Image

George P. Lee's views on the youth of the Church aren't doctrinal.

[_The Nehor]

Those quotes also make it clear that they are 'among' the most valiant. This does not mean they are all great. Abraham was one of the noble and great ones yet for some reason he came to the Earth early. The most valiant came about 2000 years ago. I doubt my premortal self was the equal of Moses, Peter, John, or Enoch. I may have been the cream of the crop but I'm not part of the cherry on top of that cream.

[_Pokatator]

George P. Lee, “Staying Unspotted from the World,” Ensign, May 1978, 27
Image

George P. Lee's views on the youth of the Church aren't doctrinal.

Cinepro, I am in agreement. But in defense of JoeClerk this is the common argument. What is doctrine and what is not? I am only showing that this is another (doctrine/not doctrine) issue, of which there are very many, that was taught in seminary and other venues, plus was addressed in talks in church conference. It is so easy to blur the issues of doctrine when things are preached and taught in these venues and in a manner that is often times viewed as doctrine by many of the followers.

[_Pokatator]

Those quotes also make it clear that they are 'among' the most valiant. This does not mean they are all great. Abraham was one of the noble and great ones yet for some reason he came to the Earth early. The most valiant came about 2000 years ago. I doubt my premortal self was the equal of Moses, Peter, John, or Enoch. I may have been the cream of the crop but I'm not part of the cherry on top of that cream.

Hey Hehor, you sure can read a lot into a couple of quotes, Moses, Peter, etc. weren't mentioned in the quotes. By the way, I am sure you are a cherry on top of some cream, somewhere.

I prefer to just refer you to my comment to Cinepro for the reasons for my post. Thanx.

[_The Nehor]

Hey Hehor, you sure can read a lot into a couple of quotes, Moses, Peter, etc. weren't mentioned in the quotes. By the way, I am sure you are a cherry on top of some cream, somewhere.

I prefer to just refer you to my comment to Cinepro for the reasons for my post. Thanx.

I just read the actual quotes and it stood out. I don't think it was a Scratchian reading or anything.

The ability to discern real doctrine comes from study and prayer. Too many members jump to a conclusion based on what they heard and forget the details. This is understandable with converts because they may not have a framework to put the teaching in. Others are just lazy. Eventually the teaching gets repeated until it's off-base.

I'm reminded of the letter from the brethren denying the President Packer quote where he supposedly said that all would bow in our presence for living at this time. Probably came from a lot of exaggerating for effect.