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Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:41 pm
by _cinepro
Connell O' Donovan has posted his presentation from Sunstone West:

“I would confine them to their own species” LDS Historical Rhetoric & Praxis Regarding Marriage Between Whites and Blacks

Ultimately this paper shows that LDS doctrine and practice maintained that civil marriages specifically between blacks and whites were categorically prohibited, were unnatural and contrary to God’s law, would never be acceptable within the LDS Church (or if so, only in some future eschatological period); they were deeply offensive to social norms and if allowed to be performed, would lead to the destruction of not just society but indeed humanity.


In 1978, with the removal of the priesthood ban by Spencer Kimball, any justification for banning black-white marriages within LDS temples ended, although some LDS General Authorities, such as Apostle Boyd K. Packer, reportedly continued to discourage or even prohibit them for a few years afterward.

In researching this paper, when coming across the statements and theological arguments that LDS leaders made against black-white marriage, most of the time I was reminded of just how similar, even identical, these sounded to my ears in relation to the arguments now presented by LDS leaders against homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

Currently the LDS Church fully accepts black-white civil marriages and has performed black-white sealings in temples for more than thirty years – and the feared and promised destruction of humanity has not taken place. What was once a dire sin and shameful practice, utterly prohibited because of the enormous social, political, spiritual, and soteriological consequences for all of humanity, is no longer a heinous sin and has now been embraced, accepted, and celebrated by the faithful. With this clear and near-perfect precedent set, I can only demand to know how soon before LDS leaders will allow same-sex couples the free agency to marry, even civilly, those whom we love?



Interesting read. Things are so much clearer in hindsight.

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:51 pm
by _rcrocket
In researching this paper, when coming across the statements and theological arguments that LDS leaders made against black-white marriage, most of the time I was reminded of just how similar, even identical, these sounded to my ears in relation to the arguments now presented by LDS leaders against homosexuality and same-sex marriage.


I lectured at the UCLA law school on this subject. The California Supreme Court used the ban on miscegenation as an analogue to strike down same sex marriage. However, it was fairly acknolwedged by my auditors at UCLA that the black community, as a majority (it is hard to define exactly the "black community") finds the struggle for racial civil rights not equivalent to the same sex issue, and many find the comparison offensively derogatory of their struggle.

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
by _DarkHelmet
It's obvious to me that the SSM argument is very similar to the interracial argument from previous generations, but no TBM would admit it. Spencer W. Kimball's counsel against interracial marriage even crept into the current Aaronic Priesthood manul, probably by accident.

Also, wasn't the church's argument against ERA that it would destroy the traditional family?

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:09 pm
by _cinepro
rcrocket wrote:
I lectured at the UCLA law school on this subject. The California Supreme Court used the ban on miscegenation as an analogue to strike down same sex marriage. However, it was fairly acknolwedged by my auditors at UCLA that the black community, as a majority (it is hard to define exactly the "black community") finds the struggle for racial civil rights not equivalent to the same sex issue, and many find the comparison offensively derogatory of their struggle.



I totally agree. From a legal standpoint, they are different, and the Supreme Court was overreaching.

But the article isn't about the legal aspects of the case. It discusses the similarities between the arguments used by Church leaders against interracial-marriage and SSM.

In other words, it explores the principle of "fallible Prophets", and whether or not that principle might apply in this case as well.

Practically speaking, how were LDS of a century ago supposed to know that their leaders were just expressing their fallible opinion on the subject of interracial marriage, and were they (the leaders and the followers) less sure of their position on God's feelings towards interracial marriage as modern LDS (leaders and followers) are about His position towards SSM?

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:31 pm
by _moksha
Don't you find it amazing how much more pure and delightsome we Church members have become since putting that ban nonsense behind us?

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:57 pm
by _rcrocket
cinepro wrote:Practically speaking, how were LDS of a century ago supposed to know that their leaders were just expressing their fallible opinion on the subject of interracial marriage, and were they (the leaders and the followers) less sure of their position on God's feelings towards interracial marriage as modern LDS (leaders and followers) are about His position towards SSM?


The New Testament is full of Paul's opinions on various topics. Church leaders are entitled to their opinions, and since miscengation was illegal in almost all states and territories, it was probably good advice. Even in Spencer Kimball's day, when he advised it, it was probably good advice although he had different bases. He said that to reduce the stress upon your marriage you should try to marry within your community of believers and your race.

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:27 pm
by _Ray A
rcrocket wrote: He said that to reduce the stress upon your marriage you should try to marry within your community of believers and your race.


The best way to reduce stress in marriage is to get a divorce.

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:02 pm
by _rcrocket
Ray A wrote:
rcrocket wrote: He said that to reduce the stress upon your marriage you should try to marry within your community of believers and your race.


The best way to reduce stress in marriage is to get a divorce.


I would suspect that most posters on this board have had or are having marital difficulties rising to the level of divorce, wouldnjasay?

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:08 pm
by _Ray A
rcrocket wrote:I would suspect that most posters on this board have had or are having marital difficulties rising to the level of divorce, wouldnjasay?


Been there, done that. No man hath greater joy. I'm just enjoying a bit of flippancy before hitting the sack after working all night.

If I was any happier I'd be dangerous, and no, I haven't had a drop of alcohol.

I'm high on freedom.

Get a life. Get rid of the wife. :lol:

Re: Racial Marriage Ban totally different from the SSM ban...?

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:13 pm
by _Dr. Shades
rcrocket wrote:I would suspect that most posters on this board have had or are having marital difficulties rising to the level of divorce, wouldnjasay?

I'm sorry to hear that, Bob. I hope you and your wife can work things out.