DiscussMormonism.com

I've always enjoyed reading others' experiences of online chats w/ missionaries, so here's mine from just a few moments ago:

Ofa:
Hello, this is Ofa of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How can I help you EJ?

EJ:
Hi, Ofa. I have a question: I’ve been meeting with the missionaries, and one of my friends told me that Joseph Smith had something like 30 wives, and the youngest one was 14. I asked the elders about it, and they said this was a lie, but there’s all kinds of websites (even ones friendly to the LDS church) that seem to validate it, and I guess I’m just trying to figure out what’s true.

EJ:
Help?

Ofa:
EJ it seems to me that you are confused and need help but don’t know who to ask help from. I will tell you what I know and believe to be true but the one who will really answer you is GOD.

EJ:
Yes, I’ve been praying for answers, but finding out if these things are true about Joseph Smith is important to me, especially if I decide to get baptized (which I’ve been talking about with the elders quite a bit).

Ofa:
Joseph was a prophet of God, he was called and prepared at 14 after he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. Through that miraculous first vision we know that God speaks to us today that he and Jesus Christ are two separate beings and that He loves us

Ofa:
God has also spoken to His children on earth through a PROPHET a spokesperson we know that God cannot dwell within unclean things so He speaks through a mouthpiece His servants the prophets.

Ofa:
He had Adam, Moses, Abraham and many other men and then even sent His Son Jesus Christ to establish His church on earth and bring back the Priesthood power onto earth again.

EJ:
The elders have talked to me about Joseph Smith’s visions and about prophets and the priesthood, but they haven’t told me anything about him taking other men’s wives and marrying girls as young as 14. This is troublesome to me, if true. Is it?

(Long Pause)

EJ:
Yes? No?

Ofa:
EJ it isn’t about Joseph Smith and the many thousands of rumours circulating about him

EJ:
You’re saying these are just rumors, then?

Ofa:
I do not know everything there is to know about God or Jesus or the gospel of Jesus Christ

Ofa:
EJ I prayed to God to know if Joseph was a true prophet of God and I witness to you that HE IS, God revealed it to me and He will reveal it to you

Ofa:
Do I know everything there is to know and do I allow others to persuade me otherwise NO, God knows that he has revealed it to me and I cannot and will not deny my Father in Heaven

EJ:
But do you know if these things about Joseph Smith’s marriages to other men’s wives and 14 year old girls is true? This is my question, and I can’t help but feel you are avoiding it.

(Loooong Pause)

EJ:
Do you not know? Or do you know, but don’t want to tell me? I don’t mean to sound rude, but I feel like I’m getting the runaround sorta….

Ofa:
No EJ Joseph Smith did not marry other mens wives and 14 year old girls

Ofa:
He was a prophet of God, He went through so much just so that we today could receive the fullness of the everlasting gospel and have a fullness of joy

EJ:
Have you heard of FAIR?

Ofa:
I’m sorry EJ I have not heard of FAIR does it talk about the prophet Joseph Smith?

EJ:
Yeah. It’s a website run by Mormons to answer questions that non-Mormons may have.

EJ:
That website says Joseph Smith DID marry a 14 year old girl named Helen Mar Kimball.

EJ:
You’re telling me this website is incorrect?

Ofa:
That is the first I’ve heard of it but EJ how do you feel when the elders come over and they teach you about the Plan of Happiness and about the Book of Mormon and that you are a beloved daughter of God?

EJ:
The link is http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith_a ... oung_women

EJ:
Honestly, if these things about Joseph Smith are true, I feel that the elders aren’t giving me the whole story.

EJ:
And it concerns me that they seem to know nothing about it.

Ofa:
How did you FEEL EJ when the Elders taught you about the Plan of Happiness? This is just a question.

EJ:
What I felt then isn’t what I feel now. And the feelings I have now are the ones I have to deal with. And right now I’m feeling like you don’t want to address Joseph Smith’s marriages to 14 year old girls and other men’s wives.

Ofa:
What were those feelings EJ…Please just tell me!!!

Ofa:
I want to know if they were the same feelings I feel everyday when I teach people about the Plan of Salvation a feeling of peace, comfort like I’ve never felt before. A warmth in my heart and a thought in my mind that it is true.

EJ:
Curiosity, interest, a desire to learn more. It was these feelings that lead me to discover these things about Joseph Smith’s marriages to other men’s wives and 14 year old girls.

EJ:
Would it bother YOU to learn that Joseph Smith married other men’s wives and a 14 year old girl?

Ofa:
No EJ because I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God in these day before Christ’s second coming on of his sayings was “When the Lord commands. Do It” I know that no matter what he was and still is a prophet of God.

EJ:
Well, I don’t know what you claim to know, and, frankly, if Joseph Smith was the kind of man to marry other men’s wives, I have my doubts.

EJ:
But I’m coming to believe that you are not able to speak intelligently about Joseph Smith’s marriages to other men’s wives and a 14 year old girl, so I’ll thank you for your time and wish you a great day.

Ofa:
EJ go to God in prayer.

Ofa:
Remember that men’s wisdoms is nothing to God’s wisdom and love

Ofa:
He loves and cares so much about you EJ and He will lead you to the path which will take you back to Him

EJ:
Thank you. God bless.

Ofa:
My favourite scripture in Proverbs 3 “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine cown understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.”

Hi D,

Sigh.

Thanks for sharing this rather sad exchange.

What is really interesting to me is that the missionary recommended FAIR.

It is as if the LDS church, the prophets, apostles, leaders, missionaries can't answer the questions... people have to go to the apologists. What is up with this?

Aren't the prophets the ones supposedly in communication with Jesus Christ?

Why can't they answer the questions? Why doesn't some LDS leader clear up the mess? Help people with honest answers? The very fact that the church won't come out and be honest and open tells me they are not wanting to share the truth.

Again, why would God require someone believe lies to have the truth?

~td~

truth dancer wrote:

What is really interesting to me is that the missionary recommended FAIR.

No she said she'd never heard of FAIR.

truth dancer wrote:What is really interesting to me is that the missionary recommended FAIR.

Actually, it was me (posting as EJ) that brought up FAIR. Ofa, the missionary, had never heard of it. Which actually kinda surprised me, because I've chatted with missionaries before and they would often link me to articles by FAIR or FARMS in response to my concerns.

I really feel for that poor missionary. She must feel awful right now. I hope her superiors don't give HER that same runaround.

What a pathetic situation.

It wasn't so long ago that I was in Ofa's shoes, so I can understand and even forgive the typical missionary evasiveness and emphasis on feelings. It's what they're trained to do. I have a harder time understanding, though, why she would presume to answer a question she obviously knew nothing about with a definitive "NO," instead of the more honest "I don't know./I've never heard that."

(Yes, I am aware that I am commenting on Ofa's honesty while I blatantly misrepresented myself throughout the entire conversation. So freakin sue me.)

Dwight Frye wrote:(Yes, I am aware that I am commenting on Ofa's honesty while I blatantly misrepresented myself throughout the entire conversation. So freakin sue me.)

I've actually done this in real life with missionaries who came to my door many years ago. I "played the game" for about 20 minutes (trying to hold back the laughter), until I admitted I was once a member. I'm quite sure they left in a daze.

No big deal. None other then B.H. Roberts once did it to a couple of missionaries - and they nearly ended up losing their testimonies.

marg wrote:

truth dancer wrote:

What is really interesting to me is that the missionary recommended FAIR.

No she said she'd never heard of FAIR.

Opps, I read this incorrectly! Thanks for helping me out here LOL!

Phew!!

Still, it is too bad the LDS church doesn't have any answers. While the bearing your testimony strategy worked for the last century, I think today with the Internet the game is changing.

Ray A wrote:None other then B.H. Roberts once did it to a couple of missionaries - and they nearly ended up losing their testimonies.

Hey Ray. I'm interested in finding out more about this incident. Can you recall where you read it?

you would think that they could teach all the weird s*** in early morning seminary. You start talking about marrying an other man's wife or maybe getting thoughts by looking into rocks; you would get all the youth there, quite, sitting in their seats. Instead, the church does scripture chase which was trying to find a scripture and then taking it so far out of context even protestants shake their head.