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The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:51 am
by _Ray A
No, I'm not going anywhere, but I felt that the following email might help others. As many know, I've occasionally made short returns into the Church after I left in 1987, seeking I knew not what, probably some kind of balance between TBMism and liberalism. The former I could no longer tolerate. February/March 2001 was my final farewell to the Church. This last burst of activity was really only an effort to save a doomed marriage, and once it was all done, I cut my ties with the Church forever.

The email was originally sent to a small circle of Mormon friends (those who helped and supported me the most), and it was to them that I was addressing my sentiments. I have edited much of it to retain my privacy and the privacy of the individuals concerned, but I think the basic message is intact.


One thing I have noticed on message boards is that many reflective Mormons are still in transition, and unsure of what to do or where to go. I hope this helps, one way or the other.

Saturday, 17 March 2001 3:11 PM



I am sorry if this type of impersonal response offends any, but I have had so many people emailing me about my welfare and concerns about my recent departure from church activity that I have prepared this rather than answer every email individually. This way you will get a better explanation, which might be left out if I replied to each of you individually. I don't have the time to reply to individual emails as I am in the process of selling and moving house, having lost the financial battle to keep it, and not receiving any help around the house from my two sons. I have finally been overcome with all the pressures, and I now feel very happy about selling and moving on with my new life. I felt a strong emotional attachment to the house, as it was the only thing I was left with in this bitter and divisive divorce, the true costs of which will not be fully known for years, and those costs will not be financial, but emotional, and mainly upon the children.

First, let me say how grateful I am to my Latter-day Saints brothers and sisters. You truly have been wonderful to me. Most of you have shown the Spirit of Christ in reaching out to me in my worst moments of emotional and spiritual distress since November 1999, when this terrible journey began, this journey which has led to the final breakdown and dissolution of the family, and make no mistake, that is what has occurred. It will never be the same. For years to come the rancour and division will continue, the result of seeds sown. I have seen it in other families, even 15-20 years later, and there is no reason to suppose that this family will somehow escape.

I think of the Savage Garden song Crash and Burn when I think of my Latter-day Saint friends. "When darkness is upon you, and a loyal friend is hard to find" you were the ones who came to my rescue. You were the ones who reached out to me, encouraged me, gave me hope, fellowshipped me, fed me, and gave me your trust and friendship when such things were rare in my dissipated life. I was a poor wayfaring man of grief, but "Inasmuch ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me". You shall have your reward.

Now to a different emphasis. This sad journey probably really began in August 1987, when I first left the church. This is not going to be an epistle of regret and remorse. I now feel happier and freer than I have felt for 27 years! I am not exaggerating. For me, the truth has indeed set me free. The truth about myself, and about where I went wrong, and about where I need to go for the future.

In 1987, when I decided to leave the church, I felt happier than I had for 13 years. I fondly remember the years between 1987 and 1990 as the happiest I have had, apart from when I was a teenager. I felt free, and I felt myself, my true self. All people have some kind of spiritual longing, and all have their own "Meccas" that they must travel to to find fulfilment. For some it may be sport, for others a different religion, but for me I needed to drink from my fountain of spiritual renewal, which has always been the Book of Mormon, not the church, as some believe. The Book of Mormon has always been the keystone of my belief, never the church. My allegiance to the church has only been because of my belief in the Book of Mormon. No Book of Mormon, then no church for me. I guess I am very much like David Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery. To me the church is filled with numberless man-made requirements and traditions and expectations, none of which accord with the Book of Mormon. Sometimes it makes us more like Pharisees, and I don't think that is good. But as many of you already know, even the historicity of the Book of Mormon has posed problems for me since the early 90s. Problems that keep coming back, and problems that even in my best spiritual moments keep arising. When teaching the Book of Mormon I have always avoided these problems, for obvious reasons. But nothing will make them go away, and even if I stopped discussing them they are sure to arise again among a more questioning, younger generation. Some are already advocating that we cease to view the Book of Mormon as a historical document, but a spiritual one only. This has obvious implications, though they are not apparent to all. For a start, our worship might not be so ritualistic and literal in a Pharisaic sense, and definitely not so punitive. This observation will offend some. But it is true. And what have we gained by strict literalism? Division even amongst ourselves. Why do 70 percent of us go inactive? And why do the rest of us take an almost ascetic joy in "knowing" that "we are the elect, the chosen few"? Think of our own Ward, where each Sunday some 100 people on average gather while some 200,000 other citizens of the area go about their activities. Do we seriously think that only those 100 in this whole geographical area will be saved? I would in fact think that by the requirements of Mormon doctrine, only about 30 or so of the members of the 100 would be doing even near enough to pass. But yet there are some who will insist that this is indeed the case. These are my reflections, and nothing else. But from this springs a logic that has made me a closet doubter for many, many years, beginning in the early 80s. We like to think that we have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but in fact we don't.

To all of you who have observed me, who have watched my complex attitudes unfold, I offer this challenge. Read ALL that I have read in the past 18 years, and experience ALL that I have experienced in the past 18 years, and if after all that you can still say you are an orthodox believer, then my reply will be, "you are very good at denial".

Let me conclude this inordinately long email with something positive. Those who have survived near death experiences have some common observations about our purpose in life, and as some of you know from my Gospel Doctrine classes I have studied this subject at length. There are two main reasons we all come to this life - to LEARN, to gain knowledge, and to LOVE, or to learn to love. I have no problem with the first, but in view of my experiences I am having considerable difficulty with the second. "Whom God loves, he chasteneth."

I love you all, my LDS friends. Paul, formerly Saul, took a lifetime to learn the importance of love, but in the end he concluded that "without love we are nothing". We can be prophets, move mountains, speak with the tongue of angels, and understand all mysteries, but if we have failed to love, and to learn to love, we have failed! This is an insight from the Christian tradition that we must cherish, and the Mormon tradition, for Moroni even explains HOW we can get this love.

God bless you all, and forgive me if I have offended you, but I must speak the truth. I will never forget your kindness and love, and I am sorry to name individuals, but [name deleted] and [name deleted], and the [name deleted], I consider to be special friends. They have shown such love and kindness to me, without judgment.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:03 am
by _Kishkumen
It's a shame that most writers make less than cabbies, because you are a talented writer. Thanks for sharing this letter!

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:45 am
by _Pokatator
Ray thanks for your post.

It is a very similar journey as mine. It has been about 22 years for me and it was a very strained situation with my 3 children. My relationship with them slowly but steadily improved over the years. All is fine now, hang in there with them.

I envy the friends you had at your time of need, I did not have that in anyway shape or form. I was branded the enemy and treated as such from day one of our problems. My story is long too, and I have stated it several times in different depths and durations. It was good for me to get it out and I am sure it is good for you too. Your letter was great and I am sure healthy for you.

I wish you the best of luck in all you do and I really treasure your presence here.

Pok

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:13 am
by _Ray A
Pokatator wrote:Ray thanks for your post.

It is a very similar journey as mine. It has been about 22 years for me and it was a very strained situation with my 3 children. My relationship with them slowly but steadily improved over the years. All is fine now, hang in there with them.

I envy the friends you had at your time of need, I did not have that in anyway shape or form. I was branded the enemy and treated as such from day one of our problems. My story is long too, and I have stated it several times in different depths and durations. It was good for me to get it out and I am sure it is good for you too. Your letter was great and I am sure healthy for you.

I wish you the best of luck in all you do and I really treasure your presence here.

Pok


Kish and Pok, thanks for your comments. I'm surprised Will hasn't stepped in yet, but I'm sure I'll soon learn how misguided I was.

I have read your story before, Pok, in bits and pieces, and I think you had it worse than I did. At least I had a few LDS friends who really tried to understand, and were not judgemental. They left a positive impact on me, even though I could never agree with their TBM beliefs.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:21 am
by _bcspace
It's a shame that most writers make less than cabbies, because you are a talented writer.


We have several talented writers here, but not much honesty. Not even many examples as to why, and when such are given, they typically are pathetic or doctrinally incorrect.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:41 am
by _Ray A
bcspace wrote:
We have several talented writers here, but not much honesty. Not even many examples as to why, and when such are given, they typically are pathetic or doctrinally incorrect.


I'll settle for pathetic and dishonest. And I'm ever so glad to wear that just to be rid of annoying TBMs. You just confirm the correctness of my decision that "true belief", or TBMism, is a modern class of Pharisee. Which reminds me to post my original exit letter:

23rd January 1988

Dear President:


After many months of reflection I have decided that I want my name removed from the records of the church.

I can no longer consider myself a "faithful" Mormon and do not wish to have the stigma of church membership associated with any of my words or actions, which may also offend the sensivities of practicing Mormons, and make me somewhat of a hypocrite in the eyes of both Mormons and non-Mormons.

My experiences of Mormonism in general, and particularly over the last several months, have convinced me that the vast majority of Mormons are bigoted, biased, prejudiced and extremely narrowminded. I also intensely dislike the strong anti-intellectual trend that has been and still is gaining great momentum within the church. I do not necessarily lay blame upon individuals for this condition, but see it as a reflection of a church dedicated to rigid conformity, which I view as destructive to the creativity and true freedom of the individual.

After studying Mormon history over the last several years I am alarmed and disturbed at inconsistencies which I find irreconcilable, many of which destroy the bases of contemporary Mormon practices and beliefs and which church authorities have taken great measures to prevent average members access to such information (despite recent protestations to the contrary) for fear that such information may damage the faith of simplistic Mormons.

With this knowledge I find it impossible to generate the naïve faith necessary to be a Mormon, especially in the realm of the thousands of do's and don'ts that I feel are anthetical to the teachings of Christ, not that I claim to be a Christian, for I abhor conventional (especially "born-again") Christianity even more than Mormonism.

Since it is not my purpose here to make justification, or give specific reasons for leaving the church, I shall dispense with verbosity and simply request that you proceed with my excommunication.

Sincerely,

Ray Agostini.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:08 pm
by _Some Schmo
bcspace wrote: We have several talented writers here, but not much honesty. Not even many examples as to why, and when such are given, they typically are pathetic or doctrinally incorrect.

Why what? We left the church? You're calling people's reasons "dishonest?"

That's quite the charge given that there is no way you could know what you know about the church and still believe it.

All the doctrine in the world is irrelevant if you don't believe one simple lie, that Joe Smith went into the forest and saw god.

That's why I left, and that's the honest truth. All the other doctrinal nuances and peripheral crap that people argue about are distractions from Joe Smith's one central lie.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:18 pm
by _Inconceivable
Ray & Pok,

Thanks again for your comments.

Here are some musings:

Seems some of the good we retain upon our departure from Mormonism is what goes unnoticed by many that remain in the church.

Charity. What a concept.

I had a great teacher/mentor before I left on the mission that emphasized the essential development of this pure love of Christ. It wasn't intended to be just another tenate. It was the thing. Since that time, it was all about emulating Christ for me. I've been a work in progress, but at least I knew the doctrine.

It's interesting that the Book of Mormon is closer to mainstream Christianity than Mormonism ever was. It's still a good book written by someone with greater wisdom and understanding than Smith, Cowdery or even Spaulding. So who knows? The church reminds me more of a great Rameumtum.

I've made a valiant attempt to discard only those principles unique to Mormonism. It takes time to sift through the BS, doesn't it.

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 pm
by _Ray A
Inconceivable wrote:It's interesting that the Book of Mormon is closer to mainstream Christianity than Mormonism ever was.


So close that even a Baptist minister not only accepts it, but teaches from it.

Inconceivable wrote:I've made a valiant attempt to discard only those principles unique to Mormonism. It takes time to sift through the BS, doesn't it.


I did this sifting for a very long time, and polygamy was probably the biggest urchin in this rough sea, from the first few weeks of membership, when a missionary told me that Joseph Smith once asked Heber C. Kimball for his wife, "only as a test". The first thought that came to me was, "what did I join?" Entering the Church with the naïve idea that things like the Sermon on the Mount were really what mattered. Perhaps I was too idealistic, but eventually the Mormon engine would no longer start for me. From 1985, I decided I was eventually going to work my way out. That's another story. My last two years of full activity were focused on friendships, and helping others, and I became the executive secretary to a bishop friend, at my request. I told him that's the only position I'd accept, and he "had a word with the SP".

Re: The Final Farewell.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:24 pm
by _Kishkumen
bcspace wrote:We have several talented writers here, but not much honesty. Not even many examples as to why, and when such are given, they typically are pathetic or doctrinally incorrect.


Too bad your "honesty" gets lost in the incomprehensibility of your convoluted verbiage.