DiscussMormonism.com

Making mistakes is undeniably part of the human experience and each of us has surely made his or her share. That being said, it seems prudent to be wary of someone who has repeatedly shown him/herself to be unreliable. To trust someone who has consistently broken his word is unwise. To rely on someone who has routinely made promises she has failed to keep is foolish. In matters of even minor importance, most of us are wary in placing our trust where it has before been broken. Why, then, should Joseph Smith be trusted in a matter as serious as eternity when Smith repeatedly engaged in behavior that impugned his own character? He repeatedly showed himself untrustworthy.

Joseph Smith was a glass-looker. It was a disreputable practice in his day and it is disreputable now. Would any currently active Latter-day Saint hire Joseph Smith to look for treasure on their property were he miraculously available for such service? A few might, but most are too smart to fall for such chicanery. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Smith's "slippery treasure" claim wasn't true. He wasn't trustworthy in that claim, so why should his claim that an angel retrieved the gold plates be trusted? Somehow those gold plates disappeared without a trace, just like the treasure on the land of the farmers Smith bamboozled.

Smith was involved in the Kirtland banking fiasco. He ran from authorities when legal action was taken against him.

Smith publicly lied about polygamy.

Smith secretly married women who were already married to other men.

Smith began translating the Kinderhook plates, which were no more than decoys set as a trap to expose him as a fraud.

The above few examples are more than enough to render Smith completely untrustworthy. It seems unwise to believe his claim that he was a prophet of God when it is clear he engaged in a pattern of dishonest behavior.

Mormons hold the Bible to be the Word of God, as long as it is translated correctly. I believe they, as do most people, find Luke 16.10 reliable advice. I don't wish to rip the verse from its context; however, I think it applicable to my point:

10 One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.

Most of us believe it important to be a man or woman of one's word. Most of us have learned through experience not to trust those who show themselves untrustworthy or unreliable. Should Joseph Smith be held to lower standards than the average man? Why should Joseph Smith be trusted?

KA

I think Joseph Smith should be held to lower standards than other men and women because I don't want to be guilty of presentism.

silentkid wrote:I think Joseph Smith should be held to lower standards than other men and women because I don't want to be guilty of presentism.

Or positivism and anti-supernatural bias.

But in all seriousness KA, you're exactly right. If Joseph Smith lied often and unapologetically to his own wife, even claiming revelations to justify his actions, why should we assume he told the truth to anyone else?

Hi Kimberly Ann,

If God chose a man who was honest and respectable then it would not require so much faith to believe him.

Or something like that...

~td~

Had Joseph Smith been trustworthy, he would not have been successful. His power lie in attracting the credulous. Trustworthiness is a fatal flaw for an emerging prophet.

KimberlyAnn wrote:
Mormons hold the Bible to be the Word of God, as long as it is translated correctly.

10 One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.

Perhaps that scripture was not translated correctly.

Lets look at it this way: Were the twelve apostles at the time of Christ trustworthy? I see some untrustworthy behavior. Was Paul trustworthy? Hard to say with what we know of him but most likely the members of the early church in Jeruselum might say no.

It is easy to find fault in a human being that is a public figure. Just look at the tabloids, many famous people with faultlines going through their lives. No one is perfect.

Now for the Mormon perspective:

Was Martin Harris trustworthy?

Was Oliver Cowdery trustworthy?

Was David Whitmer trustworthy?

Were the 11 other witnesses trustworthy?

Was Emma trustworthy?

Was Joseph's mom trustworthy?

Since all of the above were involved directly or indirectly with the beginnings of the Book of Mormon much depends on their trustworthiness too.

And so, we are not just dealing with the trustworthiness of one man but also with a host of other people.

Yong Xi wrote:Had Joseph Smith been trustworthy, he would not have been successful. His power lie in attracting the credulous.

Oh I see, so all the Mormons at that time were credulous...with monkey brains. I don't think so. Now lets look at it this way: People flocked to the Mormon church not because of Joseph Smith but because of the message. No one in Europe who came to the america to be with the saints ever met Joseph Smith. But they did meet the message that the church had.

Also, we also need to remember that the church was not just about Joseph Smith. It was also about a host of other people involved. Emma for one. She was a stalwart in the faith. Yes, she had her disagreements with Joseph Smith but she was faithful to the church and oversaw many women in the faith. And she spoke at meetings and was responsible I am sure for cementing the faith of other members. Was she trustworthy?

And so, I have to disagree with you. But it would be interesting to know the IQ level of the early members. I think that we would be pleasantly surprised that it was high.

why me wrote:Also, we also need to remember that the church was not just about Joseph Smith. It was also about a host of other people involved. Emma for one. She was a stalwart in the faith. Yes, she had her disagreements with Joseph Smith but she was faithful to the church and oversaw many women in the faith. And she spoke at meetings and was responsible I am sure for cementing the faith of other members. Was she trustworthy?

Emma wanted William Marks chosen as president over Brigham Young after Joseph Smith death. Brigham eventually told her to get lost, and basically that she was going to hell. She joined with the ReOrganites, and supported her son Joseph Smith III as leader of that organisation.

She did not support polygamy. She broke away from the LDS Church.

In that sense she was very trustworthy, because she could spot a ruse when she saw one.