President Barack Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, who died in 1995, was baptized posthumously into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints last year during her son's campaign, according to Salt Lake City-based researcher Helen Radkey.
The ritual, known as “baptism for the dead,” was done June 4 in the Provo temple, and another LDS temple rite, known as the “endowment,” was performed in the same temple on June 11, said Radkey, who found the record while doing research in the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City.
Baptism for the dead does not make someone a Mormon. Mormons don't believe it does, and critics don't belive that Mormons have any power over the dead. Therefore, the claim that Obama's mother is a Mormon is a bald-faced lie.
Also, the church discourages members from doing this sort of thing because it recognizes the importance of sensitivity in matters relating to loved ones who have departed this life.
I also think that baptism for the dead is misunderstood by the public. With most people, we hope that they will be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife. While we do not belive that living an honorable life is sufficient to reach heaven, we do belive that God will ensure that the honorable dead are given a fair chance to have any outstanding requirements fulfilled. It is God's job to determine thos requirements, not ours. It is our obligation to fulfill those requirements according to our faith as it is for every person according to his or her faith. To that end we try to focus on doing work on behalf of our own ancestors. Baptism for the dead is more like a prayer for the dead in that it forces nothing, but is an expression of our sincere wishes of blessings on behalf of the dearly departed.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Baptism for the dead does not make someone a Mormon. Mormons don't believe it does, and critics don't belive that Mormons have any power over the dead. Therefore, the claim that Obama's mother is a Mormon is a bald-faced lie.
Unless she accepted her baptism in the spirit world. Who are we to say she didn't (I'm an optimist )?
Baptism for the dead does not make someone a Mormon. Mormons don't believe it does, and critics don't belive that Mormons have any power over the dead. Therefore, the claim that Obama's mother is a Mormon is a bald-faced lie.
Excellent! Just the reaction that opponents of the CoJCoLDS love to hear aired!
Now, how bitterly we would be gnashing our teeth if the reaction had been something like:
"We are sorry that this happened, and we understand how upset you must be by what seems like an intrusion into your family grief and remembrances. We know that our religion must seem strange to you, and we won't bother you with explanations or justifications: we'll just say that church policy nowadays is that this kind of thing just shouldn't happen without relatives wanting it to, and it shouldn't have occurred in the case of your mother."
And then (just to make matters worse for all us Mo-haters) not a word of complaint about how everybody hates and deliberately misunderstands you. Just the apology, and then shut the heck up, OK?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:Excellent! Just the reaction that opponents of the CoJCoLDS love to hear aired!
If they're telling bald-faced lies, it's the one they should hear. I don't give people a free pass on lies even because of the loss of a loved one. I do, however, try to make allowances for the emotional stress it causes.
Chap wrote:Now, how bitterly we would be gnashing our teeth if the reaction had been something like:
"We are sorry that this happened, and we understand how upset you must be by what seems like an intrusion into your family grief and remembrances. We know that our religion must seem strange to you, and we won't bother you with explanations or justifications: we'll just say that church policy nowadays is that this kind of thing just shouldn't happen without relatives wanting it to, and it shouldn't have occurred in the case of your mother."
And then (just to make matters worse for all us Mo-haters) not a word of complaint about how everybody hates and deliberately misunderstands you. Just the apology, and then shut the heck up, OK?
A fitting reply for those who understandably feel hurt about what happened and don't resort to bald-faced lies to stir up more hatred against the church. That is indeed the one I would prefer to give them. Indeed I don't call such people liars nor do I claim that everyone misunderstands us.
Last edited by Analytics on Wed May 06, 2009 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
silentkid wrote:Unless she accepted her baptism in the spirit world. Who are we to say she didn't (I'm an optimist )?
But then the baptism didn't make her a Mormon, her own choice in the spirit world did that. Baptism simply opened the door. (Actually, God opened the door, but makes His own requirements). She would have had to choose whether walk through.
For all we know, she could have decided to become Jewish, Catholic or Buddhist.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:But then the baptism didn't make her a Mormon, her own choice in the spirit world did that. Baptism simply opened the door.
Huh? Then why perform the baptism at all? It's her choice + the baptism ordinance that makes her Mormon. Without the baptism, her choice doesn't matter. You're giving too little credit to the ordinance.
silentkid wrote:Without the baptism, her choice doesn't matter. You're giving too little credit to the ordinance.
That's becuase God will ensure that the ordinance will happen sooner or later if she wants it.
Actually ordinances are something I wonder about. To me it's about God's rules. If He wanted to, I don't see why He couldn't remove that rule. Thus to me it really comes down to God, not the ordinance. Perhaps I am a bit unorthodox in my views, but in any case I do believe that baptism for my dead ancestors is something God wants me to do.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
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