DiscussMormonism.com

I'm back from a much-needed vacation and have plunged back into work. As you know, I live and work in the heart of Utah County, and the vast majority of my colleagues are LDS.

Yesterday an engineer came by my office to discuss a project we're working on together, and when we were done talking about work, he mentioned his current calling as Gospel Doctrine instructor. I should mention that I never discuss my religious beliefs at work, unless someone asks me directly, which only one or two people have done. About the only thing anyone at work knows about my religious status is that I was elders quorum president when our director of engineering was my bishop.

So, this guy starts talking about how he struggles with the lessons because he wants to help relate them to his class members' lives, but he gets a lot of flak, particularly from older members about sticking to the prescribed lesson. I mostly just listened to him, but a strange thing happened: I could tell he was hinting in a roundabout way about his struggles with belief, but he was afraid to say so in front of someone he assumed was a believer. I reassured him that I too have dealt with the same kinds of issues he has.

Suddenly his demeanor changed, and he opened up. He said he didn't believe in the church at all and hadn't for quite a while, but he attended because his wife demanded it of him. I just sat there listening to him pour out his feelings, as if he was relieved to find someone who understood. He mentioned that he had once made the mistake of admitting his unbelief to a family member, who publicly berated him in front of the rest of the family.

I've seen this way too many times. If I recall correctly, it was Will Schryver who said he'd never met anyone in his ward who was a closet unbeliever, but I meet them all the time. What's fascinating to me is that dance of indecision, when you know they want to tell you they are unbelievers, but they are afraid of revealing themselves. What is it that makes church members so afraid of expressing doubt or unbelief?

The last thing that he said to me was that there were several people in our engineering department in the same position he is. I have no reason to doubt him. No, I don't think the church is rotting from within, but I do think there are more closet unbelievers out there than most people want to admit.

What is it that makes church members so afraid of expressing doubt or unbelief?

C'mon John, everyone knows the answer to this question. Admitting and discussing doubts to family and other church members is akin to flatulating loudly at a state dinner. Everyone stops what they are doing, stares at you, and wonders what is wrong with you.

Runtu wrote:What is it that makes church members so afraid of expressing doubt or unbelief?

I think you have partly answered your own question with, "He mentioned that he had once made the mistake of admitting his unbelief to a family member, who publicly berated him in front of the rest of the family."

I have maintained positive relationships with my family since outing myself, but if what I read on these boards about others' experiences is at all representative, then I have been lucky. Given what members are taught about apostates, I can fully understand why one would keep doubt and/or criticism to oneself. Who wants to be thought of as sinful or prideful or spiritually deficient or easily offended or gullible for buying into the lies of anti-Mormon propaganda?

The practical side of "outing" one's self is a potential loss of business or ability to advance, at least in Utah. Many people stay involved in the Church out of financial necessity. Like it or not (and I don't), it is a reality.

I think that a lot of the problem comes from the fact that Mormonism isn't simply a religion. It's a culture--a way of life.

The core of how you live is influenced by the Church.

I think that's why when a family member expresses doubts, there is such an outcry. TBM's honestly feel that the family member is on the verge of losing his/her salvation and eternal family status.

Runtu wrote: What is it that makes church members so afraid of expressing doubt or unbelief?

Because they know they will be judged harshly by people who lack empathy and even comprehension that an honest and sincere person could doubt the gospel. If they have had the opportunity to be harsh judges of others in the past, then they know how merciless people can be in this position. It is like, "You decided you don't believe (for whatever lame reason) -- well now you are going to live with the pain and suffering that comes from that decision."

Runtu wrote:He mentioned that he had once made the mistake of admitting his unbelief to a family member, who publicly berated him in front of the rest of the family.

What is it that makes church members so afraid of expressing doubt or unbelief?

I learned early on that some shouldn't know and will use it to justify evil.

One particular dirtbag Mormon yet owes me thousands of dollars for work I did for him 2 years ago. He said he wasn't sure he could trust my work because I didn't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. He threatened to litigate me into oblivian because his family was full of attorneys - which it is.

Truth is, he's a liar and a robber and had no intention of paying me. Yet he holds a temple recommend and talks the big game. This really affected my family. My wife who is yet a TBM, and my two boys that have just decided to serve missions that assisted me in the project.

On a relevant side note, in 20 years in my business, I have only had three clients that refused to pay. The other two had bills of less than $300.

Yong Xi wrote:The practical side of "outing" one's self is a potential loss of business or ability to advance, at least in Utah. Many people stay involved in the Church out of financial necessity. Like it or not (and I don't), it is a reality.

Interesting point.

Runtu, have you had any job issues in this regard?

I thought I'd click on John's post and join in a new naughty version of the Bus Stop or something.

Rats.

Guess it's back to apostate dancing with myself.

KA

Since I have started struggling with belief, I am having trouble finding someone who is not struggling. It seems that when I invite a discussion, the other person always ends up saying something like, "I just decided its a good way to live..." In fact, at my time of greatest crisis, I was looking for someone to reassure me of his/her conviction and the basis for it, and all I seemed to find were people who winked and said "yeah, me too." There were some who simply refused to discuss the matter and told me not to discuss it with anyone else because "their testimonies are not strong enough to handle the information, whether it is true or not." Just seems really strange to belong to a church so afraid of its history.