DiscussMormonism.com

On 09 May 2009, Brackite started a thread Chaldeans within the Book of Abraham which invited apologists to comment on a glaring anachronism, which if not lifted directly from Genesis by JSjr, is a stunning coincidence.

Now, I have noticed what I believe to be a new page on wikipedia concerning a previously overlooked bronze age people, the Khaldi. Certainly, I have never come across the Khaldi in several years of keeping an eye on this issue. I don't know much about wikipedia but the page was last modified (created?) on 10 May. I can't track down any further information on the page, possibly because it has never been modified - in which case a 10 May creation is indicated??

ETA: See screenshot in next post.

The two references which are the apparent basis for the Wiki entry are bogus, in that they do not support the existence of (or mention) the Khaldi people at all. Also they both relate to circa first century BCE geography and certainly not the bronze-age. Here are links to the refs and similar links showing no relationship between Roman empire Chaldaei and the mysterious 'bronze age' Khaldi:

Strabo

Strabo2

Encyclopedia Iranica

A main, unreferenced, source for the Chalubes (supposed neighbors of the Khaldis) is Harry Thurston Peck, Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898) which states:

Chalybes (Chalubes). A people of Pontus, in Asia Minor, who inhabited the whole coast from the Iasonium Promontorium to the vicinity of the river Thermodon, together with a portion of the inner country. They were celebrated in antiquity for the great iron mines and forges which existed in their country. See Metallum.

Basically, the Wikipedia entry is nonsense, but someone who might be surfing around looking for a candidate for Abraham's Chaldeans is likely to come across the mysterious Khaldi, and quite smugly assume they are way smarter than those silly critics

Edit: Chris has pointed out that this is the work of Kurdish Apologists! Subject changed to Red Herring.




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Here is the screenshot...

Danna wrote:Basically, the Wikipedia entry is nonsense, but someone who might be surfing around looking for a candidate for Abraham's Chaldeans is likely to come across the mysterious Khaldi, and quite smugly assume they are way smarter than those silly critics

How strange.

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If it's on Wikipedia, expect Zakuska to post something about it pronto.

No doubt some amateur apologist trying his hand at recreating history in Mormonism's image.

CaliforniaKid wrote:No doubt some amateur apologist trying his hand at recreating history in Mormonism's image.

Will's at it again?

CaliforniaKid wrote:No doubt some amateur apologist trying his hand at recreating history in Mormonism's image.

It may just be coincidence, but it is a bit odd. Maybe a wiki-buff could track down who created the page. The name Khaldi appears to be an invention at this stage. Do we have any near-east historians on the board?

Runtu wrote:
If it's on Wikipedia, expect Zakuska to post something about it pronto.

LOL!

Danna,

I just took a closer look, and it appears to have been created by a Russian person who was using the online writings of Kurdish patriots as his sole sources. The Kurds apparently are claiming to be related to these Kaldi and therefore to be the most ancient people group in the Middle East.

So, it was an apologist. Just not a Mormon one.

Peace,

-Chris

Crickey, this takes me full circle to the FAIR apologist I ran into about 1999 who claimed Abraham's Chaldees were the ancestors of the Kurds based on a linguistic shift from 'R' to 'L'. That paper has disappeared from the FAIR site, for good reason. Do we have intersecting special interest groups here?

Danna wrote:Crickey, this takes me full circle to the FAIR apologist I ran into about 1999 who claimed Abraham's Chaldees were the ancestors of the Kurds based on a linguistic shift from 'R' to 'L'. That paper has disappeared from the FAIR site, for good reason. Do we have intersecting special interest groups here?

False etymology wed to false ethnography. The misuse of linguistics and history in this way is very common among nationalist movements and fringe groups. There are wackos in Italy who believe that the Etruscans are the Atlantis civilization. Some of the Mormon speculations about the past are not that different. In short, many people have fantasized and speculated about a glorious and interesting past in order to build their esteem in the present. I was always told that my ancestors were from a Highland clan, and I have come to find out that they were middle-class artisans in Glasgow.

One possible perspective on the LDS scriptures is that they are a similar phenomenon carried to an extreme. Joseph Smith managed to tie himself personally to the Biblical past through Joseph of Egypt, and he got his followers to see themselves as a modern-day gathering of Israel. Essentially the same thing as Atlantean Etruscans as imagined by their "descendents," eccentric Italians.