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Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:26 am
by _mentalgymnast
Hi Guys,
Time to drop in to Mormon Discussions after having ignored it for months. There is a big, wonderful world out there! This place is truly a wee little speck on the canvas of humanity and more particularly within the cyberspace world. When you're hanging out here all the time, day after day and week after week, it's easy to start thinking that this place is the summum bonum of all that is good in the world of online discussion groups. Not so. But it is kind of cool place. Same people hanging discussing the same stuff. Joseph was a loser,etc.
I came looking to see if there was anything new under the sun and if the church had fallen into ruin yet because of the work going on here at this discussion board. I would assume this would be the place to come and find out if LDS Corp. fallen on hard times. From the looks of it here, the church is lucky to be alive and still performing its mission throughout the world.

With all the profoundly astute arguments and pointing fingers that are still wagging around at this place you'd think that the church would have thrown up its hands in defeat. Keep it up guys, sooner or later the church will crumble because of the work that you and others like yourselves have dedicated a good part of your days and/or months and years in doing.
Anyway, there always seems to be a common thread that a lot of the conversations on this board seem to come back to. Joseph Smith was human. He had faults. Why would God restore the true church through him of all people? Well, here's a place to start. Maybe Joseph had what it took to do what needed to be done to get the ball rolling. Could Joseph have been the type of leader that God knew would have the ability to set up the kingdom of God on earth?
Here's a good place to start looking at some of the leadership qualities of Joseph Smith.
http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1Would a person who did not have these qualities have stood a chance in accomplishing the work that Joseph Smith did? He had a hard enough time as it was. In fact, as you all know, it was nip and tuck there for a while as to whether or not the church would survive. Joseph brought it through to the point that Brigham could pick it up and carry it out to the Great Basin and make a go of it.
I think Joseph was somewhat unusual in comparison to other men of his time in regards to his unique mix of leadership qualities that helped him succeed in his mission/calling.
Regards,
MG
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:30 am
by _Ray A
mentalgymnast wrote: But it is kind of cool place. Same people hanging discussing the same stuff. Joseph was a loser,etc.
He just acquired a new title, "horny toad", thanks to why me publicising it so much. Otherwise, my guess is it would have gone unnoticed.
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:01 am
by _Uncle Dale
mentalgymnast wrote:...the leadership qualities of Joseph Smith.
...
I had an ancestor who followed Smith to Missouri in the "Zion's Camp" paramilitary expedition
of 1834. Although that ancestor remained in the Church, he was thereafter not much impressed
with Smith's abilities as a military leader.
I wonder what people would say today, if the President of the Mormon Church were to secretly
lead a few hundred armed soldiers across state lines, in anticipation of engaging in a shoot-out
over some controversial land claims?
No matter any of that ---- it was long ago and far away.
Yes, it is possible that God made use of Joseph Smith, Jr., for some special purposes.
And it is also possible that God made use of the Assyrian Army and various plagues
and famines, for some special purposes.
I choose not to follow the guy. I have no confidence in peepstone con-men and money diggers.
Sorry about that.
Uncle Dale
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 am
by _huckelberry
I am not sure why one would imagine a desire to bring the Mormon church down and that people here are laboring away in such a hope. I for one am not. I do think that discussion helps people deal with uncertainties and may on occasion help them think for themselves. I hope people can do that. the mormonchurch can take care of itself.
But heres a question. Why would God want any one person to do a church? Better to improve on the human efforts across the whole variety of communities. That way people will use their God given freedom in a creative way, thinking themselves and not becoming locked into following some one individual and that indiduals quirks.
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:10 am
by _Gadianton
MG wrote:Would a person who did not have these qualities have stood a chance in accomplishing the work that Joseph Smith did?
No. But your argument sucks.
Would a person who didn't have the leadership qualities Hitler have stand a chance at accomplishing all the work Hitler did?
We're all envious of you, by the way. I'm sure while you've been gone you've explored 85% of the world out there, while we've all been here cooped up 24/7 examining but a grain of sand. Tell us more about your fantastic adventures.
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:39 am
by _mentalgymnast
Uncle Dale wrote:mentalgymnast wrote:...the leadership qualities of Joseph Smith.
...
Yes, it is possible that God made use of Joseph Smith, Jr., for some special purposes.
Uncle Dale
1. Intelligence
2. Zeal for Learning
3. Faith in a Living God
4. Power of Introspection
5. Love of People
These characteristics/qualities would empower and carry along a person who dealt with the things Joseph Smith did...wouldn't they?
Regards,
MG
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:41 am
by _mentalgymnast
Gadianton wrote:MG wrote:Would a person who did not have these qualities have stood a chance in accomplishing the work that Joseph Smith did?
No.
Agreed.
Regards,
MG
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:53 am
by _mentalgymnast
Gadianton wrote:MG wrote:Would a person who did not have these qualities have stood a chance in accomplishing the work that Joseph Smith did?
Would a person who didn't have the leadership qualities Hitler have stand a chance at accomplishing all the work Hitler did?
Hitler didn't have the
same skill set Joseph Smith had.
1. Intelligence
2. Zeal for Learning
3. Faith in a Living God
4. Power of Introspection
5. Love of People
Qualitatively anyway. Quantitatively also, it could be argued. No doubt though, Hitler was
at least an intelligent guy. Whatever his skill set was, it was uniquely his.
I am happy to see that we are in agreement that Joseph Smith's unique skill set played an important part in his successful leadership as it relates to the early beginnings of the LDS church. Many other individuals would have failed where Joseph Smith succeeded.
Regards,
MG
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:56 am
by _mentalgymnast
Gadianton wrote:MG wrote:Would a person who did not have these qualities have stood a chance in accomplishing the work that Joseph Smith did?
We're all envious of you, by the way. I'm sure while you've been gone you've explored 85% of the world out there, while we've all been here cooped up 24/7 examining but a grain of sand. Tell us more about your fantastic adventures.
Just life. Outside of this restricted space.
Regards,
MG
Re: Why would God call Joseph Smith to restore the true church?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:01 am
by _Dr. Shades
mentalgymnast wrote:Time to drop in to Mormon Discussions after having ignored it for months. There is a big, wonderful world out there!
Are you serious? Is there really?
This place is truly a wee little speck on the canvas of humanity and more particularly within the cyberspace world.
Is it really? I never would've thought!
When you're hanging out here all the time, day after day and week after week, it's easy to start thinking that this place is the summum bonum of all that is good in the world of online discussion groups. Not so.
You mean, it
isn't?Thank you, mentalgymnast, for deigning to descend amongst us mere mortals and tell us all these new, grandoise ideas that none of us ever knew before. Thank God for you, mentalgymnast.
1. Intelligence
2. Zeal for Learning
3. Faith in a Living God
4. Power of Introspection
5. Love of People
Uh, NONE of those qualities have anything whatsoever to do with leadership. It's quite possible for a sixth-grader to have all of those qualities. Doesn't make him or her a leader, though.
These characteristics/qualities would empower and carry along a person who dealt with the things Joseph Smith did...wouldn't they?
No.
I am happy to see that we are in agreement that Joseph Smith's unique skill set played an important part in his successful leadership as it relates to the early beginnings of the LDS church. Many other individuals would have failed where Joseph Smith succeeded.
Many other individuals would have failed where L. Ron Hubbard succeeded. Therefore, according to mentalgymnast, Scientology is true.
Many other individuals would have failed where the Reverend Sun Myung Moon succeeded. Therefore, according to mentalgymnast, the Unification Church--the Moonies--is true, too.