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In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:10 pm
by _Gazelam
Mormon doctrine teaches that we should be in th eworld, but not of it. We are encouraged to find our happy balance, to live church teachings while beign social and finding joy in our relationships with others and our daily struggle.
In the misunderstanding of falsely interpreted doctrine many so called religious individuals have chosen to live secluded and cloistered. These individuals deprive themselves of important life lessons we are intended to have in our mortal experience.
All of this seems to be backfiring in the case of the new Dalai Lama:
As a toddler, he was put on a throne and worshipped by monks who treated him like a god. But the boy chosen by the Dalai Lama as a reincarnation of a spiritual leader has caused consternation – and some embarrassment – for Tibetan Buddhists by turning his back on the order that had such high hopes for him.
Instead of leading a monastic life, Osel Hita Torres now sports baggy trousers and long hair, and is more likely to quote Jimi Hendrix than Buddha.
Yesterday he bemoaned the misery of a youth deprived of television, football and girls. Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers. "I never felt like that boy," he said.
He is now studying film in Madrid and has denounced the Buddhist order that elevated him to guru status. "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. "It was like living a lie," he told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. Despite his rebelliousness, he is still known as Lama Tenzin Osel Rinpoche and revered by the Buddhist community. A prayer for his "long life" still adorns the website of the Foundation to Preserve the Mahayana Tradition, which has 130 centres around the world. The website features a biography of the renegade guru that gushes about his peaceful, meditative countenance as a baby. In Tibetan Buddhism, a lama is one of a lineage of reincarnated spiritual leaders, the most famous of which is the Dalai Lama.
According to the foundation biography, another leader suspected Torres was the reincarnation of the recently deceased Lama Yeshe when he was only five months old. In 1986, at 14 months, his parents took him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".
At six, he was allowed to socialise only with other reincarnated souls – though for a time he said he lived next to the actor Richard Gere's cabin.
By 18, he had never seen couples kiss. His first disco experience was a shock. "I was amazed to watch everyone dance. What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?"
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:27 pm
by _Sethbag
While I'm not obligated, nor do I desire to adopt and engage in every practice that anyone in the world follows, and I'm free to be my own person in every way, I have to say, one of the biggest joys for me since leaving the church has been this sense that I'm actually just a co-equal member of the planet Earth's human community, not a priveleged member of some elite (Saturday's Warrior) saved by God for this end time, to come down to earth, be a part of the only group of people out of all 7 billion of us who really know what's going on, etc.
Rather than identifying myself as a Mormon, as one guy with the Power of the Creator of the Universe conferred upon me (but of course His Will be done...), who knows the secret handshakes the other 7 billion don't even know they need, who knows The Truth about why we're here, what we should be doing, how we should be acting, whom we should be obeying, etc., now I'm just another person, trying to get by as best I can.
But I like that, and it's really expanded my sense of humanity. I learn more and more about the world, and the people in it, yes, even the people who by Mormon standards are doing it all wrong, and I feel a sense of wonder and delight to know that I'm a part of this world.
I am of this world, and I am thankful. Rather than being part of some elite that is separate from everyone else, I'm just one more human being out of a family of human beings 7 billion strong.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:35 pm
by _Jersey Girl
Hi Gaz,
I find the story of the Dalai Lama fully fascinating! I was taught the same thing, that Christians are in the world but not of the world.
I think a little differently now. I was born into the world. I am of the world. If I weren't of the world, there would be no need for a Savior or striving to follow His example.
Watcha think of that?
Jersey Girl
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:43 pm
by _solomarineris
"Gazelam"]Mormon doctrine teaches that we should be in th eworld, but not of it.
Exactly, Gazalem. They teach you a world, consisting of a DESTINATION, they want you to arrive to that destination.
You are on a JOURNEY, they tell you not to experience anything, sacrifice everything for your DESTINATION.
Screw that kind of life!, I will live my life today, to the fullest, as best as I possibly can.
I will not sacrifice for any religion which cannot deliver what they promise. You show me any extraordinary event these guys performed, verifiable?
Zip, nada, zilch.
It would be so much fun to sit with these bunch on a poker table. All I have to do is; to see their bluff and up the ante
ten-fold.
You are not me, you think these guys have the best hand, all times, that's why you obey & pay.
In my book this is the only chance I've got on this Planet, I started late but it's better than never.
I'll live here & now, until somebody shows me beyond doubt afterlife exists.
Until then, I'm investing all in ME & to people I love.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:37 pm
by _Yoda
I think that being "in the world, not of it" means that you should keep moral standards and be responsible.
I think that there are many Church members who misinterpret the "in the world, not of it" phrase to mean that everything that isn't Mormon is bad. Stay away from "wordly" music, movies, etc. These same Church members, although many of them are well-meaning, tend to judge others, and look down on those who participate in non-Mormon activities.
Again, I think it is a matter of balance.
Your family should be at the top of the list, in my opinion. ANYTHING that keeps you from providing time and support to your family, INCLUDING Church activities, needs to take a back seat to family needs.
The Church provides a great social network, and a set of Christ-like principles IF applied with the proper perspective.
Where I find myself in conflict with some Church members is when judgment of others takes place. There is ONE judge...and He is not on this earth.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 pm
by _Mercury
"In the world but not of it" is a tactic of separation and exclusion of the Mormons mind from other influences that traditionally inoculate you against woo and bullshyte.
Its a way of saying that the Mormon is better than the other team. Its arrogant and like any Mormon way of life has a thin candy shell of moral foppery and navel gazing.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:27 am
by _solomarineris
liz3564 wrote:I think that being "in the world, not of it" means that you should keep moral standards and be responsible.
What?
Whose moral standards Liz? Responsible to whom? Each individual designs their own way. We determine our own standards.
If we want to drink two beers and stop, that's fine. It is also fine to finish bottle of Scotch, preferably you wouldn't drive or lose
control. If you want to abstain, that's fine too.
Just do not bother anybody, do not knock anybody's door at the evening, especially the family came home late after a long working day
save your stupid Gospel for another day.
In our brains we have 1 trillion cells, each capable to make 500 synapses.
I think we are capable to make our own decisions.
Sorry but I just hate moral standards, I don't like anybody's definition but mine.
I don't mean you here, Liz. I hope you realize that.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:37 am
by _Seven
="liz3564"I think that being "in the world, not of it" means that you should keep moral standards and be responsible.
I agree and this is how I always interpreted the message too. If I recall correctly, there was a nice talk in Conference by Elder Bednar a while back on this.
I think that there are many Church members who misinterpret the "in the world, not of it" phrase to mean that everything that isn't Mormon is bad. Stay away from "wordly" music, movies, etc. These same Church members, although many of them are well-meaning, tend to judge others, and look down on those who participate in non-Mormon activities.
Again, I think it is a matter of balance.
Your family should be at the top of the list, in my opinion. ANYTHING that keeps you from providing time and support to your family, INCLUDING Church activities, needs to take a back seat to family needs
Yep.
Where I find myself in conflict with some Church members is when judgment of others takes place. There is ONE judge...and He is not on this earth
I agree.
This is how we can be
in the church, but
not of it.
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:54 am
by _Joey
This expression always reminds me of the Book of Mormon and its claim to being "history". The Book of Mormon, for the folks in Provo, seems to be "in history, but just not of it"!!!
Re: In the World, not of it.
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:20 am
by _solomarineris
Joey wrote:This expression always reminds me of the Book of Mormon and its claim to being "history". The Book of Mormon, for the folks in Provo, seems to be "in history, but just not of it"!!!
Gazalem,
have you ever been in Paris?
By any chance Musee D'orsay, Louvre?
You'd hate it probably, seeing the women, men stark naked.
Those Artists wouldn't be of this world, would they?
All those beautiful, Mellon shaped breasts, big balls of David.
I didn't even go to Sistine Chapel......
It is an evil world, isn't it?