Does the Spirit confirm feel-good falsehoods?

[_mms]

I was thinking that I would bet a large chunk of money that I could go into a sacrament meeting and give a talk and in that talk, tell a couple of stories chock-full of lies--things that never happened and that if the audience were polled, a significant majority would claim to have felt the Spirit during the telling of the lies.

Do you dispute this? If not, why is this and what does it say about the reliability of what we interpret to be the HG confirming truth? This is a huge issue for me, because if I deem my "feelings" to be unreliable, then all I can go on is evidence and most of us know where that leads.

(I suppose one cannot start this kind of thread without mentioning Paul H. Dunn, who I happen to think was a pretty darn good guy who tended to take the whole "Heartsell" thing a little too far (see Bonneville Communications' trademarked way of manipulating emotions to sell things). But how do LDS explain what I think is the indisputable fact that when PHD spoke at mission conferences and told the false stories that he did, close to 100% of the missionaries in attendance along with the mission president and his wife would answer this question --"Did you feel the spirit confirm the truth of PHD's words," with an unequivocal "Yes." These are people arguably closest to the Spirit because of their current callings, so how could they be so easily deceived by their feelings? And if they were, are their feelings while reading and praying about the Book of Mormon reliable?)

[_huckelberry]

the idea that the HG confirms correct and distinguishes correct from incorrect by confirmation feelings is wrong. You should not put the Lord to a test. If you throw out all of that confirmation stuff you might be able to notice a residual layer of spirit not involved in such games. I suspect even if you don't notice such a layer you have a better chance distinguishing right from wrong by using your head and your own heart.

[_Mad Viking]

the idea that the HG confirms correct and distinguishes correct from incorrect by confirmation feelings is wrong. You should not put the Lord to a test. If you throw out all of that confirmation stuff you might be able to notice a residual layer of spirit not involved in such games. I suspect even if you don't notice such a layer you have a better chance distinguishing right from wrong by using your head and your own heart.

How is this "residual layer of spirit" manifested? Does it serve a purpose?

[_mms]

Huck---So does the HG confirm truth? And, if so, is it not "confirm[ing] correct and distinguish[ing] correct from incorrect by confirmation feelings"???

[_huckelberry]

Viking, manefested in the fashion, you may notice. If you do not notice then for you not currently manefested. As near as I can see God leaves people without direct manefestation part of the time, encourages them to think for themselves. Otherwise God confronts people, encourages people, on occasion points out important things, shares the delight in living.

[_silentkid]

The Holy Ghost (i.e. spirit) doesn't confirm anything. It's not real. We need to move past these magical explanations that allow believers to justify all sorts of bizarre behavior. Holy Ghost. Just say it out loud a few times to realize how ridiculous it is.

[_mms]

I am interested in the believer's view of just how reliable the feelings of the Spirit really are and whether they agree that many could be easily deceived by their feelings in the scenarios presented.

[_huckelberry]

mms, I believe there is scripture to the effect the Holy Spirit will lead us to all truth. History shows clearly there is no fast track to such a destination. I hold a belief that the scripture is correct. I just do not think the path here is primarily with doctrine nor by revelation of information. I think the Spirits path is by way of encourageing us to learn to love one another. Picking up that responsibility involves us in life so that we put the effort into learning the real world.

[_silentkid]

I am interested in the believer's view of just how reliable the feelings of the Spirit really are and whether they agree that many could be easily deceived by their feelings in the scenarios presented.

I don't think a believer will ever admit to being deceived by the The Holy Ghost. They may admit to being deceived by their own emotions, but never by the spirit. If it's true, it came from the spirit. If not, it came from their own unreliable emotions. It's an easy out. Once the magical reasoning is applied, toss the logic out the window. As far as Paul Dunn is concerned, the spirit testified the truthfulness of the principles Dunn was teaching, but wasn't verifying the facts of his stories.

[_Mad Viking]

Viking, manifested in the fashion, you may notice.

So god tailors his method of manifestation based on the individual?

If you do not notice then for you not currently manifested.

This seems like an awfully convenient arrangement.

As near as I can see God leaves people without direct manifestation part of the time, encourages them to think for themselves. Otherwise God confronts people, encourages people, on occasion points out important things, shares the delight in living.

How does one distinguish between the two conditions?