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Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:07 pm
by _bcspace
Just curious. Did Joseph Smith obtain any marriage licenses for any of those to whom he was sealed?

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:23 pm
by _Dr. Shades
Just one--Emma.

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:43 pm
by _Brackite
bcspace wrote:Just curious. Did Joseph Smith obtain any marriage licenses for any of those to whom he was sealed?


Hi bcspace,

The main reason why Joseph Smith did Not obtain Marriage licenses for any of those to whom he was 'married' and sealed to, is because Bigamy was illegal within the State of Illinois back then.

Here was the Anti-Bigamy Law in the State of Illinois:

"Sec 121. Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within this State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offending shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years. It shall not be necessary to prove either of the said marriages by the register or certificate thereof, or other record evidence; but the same may be proved by such evidence as is admissible to prove a marriage in other cases, and when such second marriage shall have taken place without this state, cohabitation in this state after such second marriage shall be deemed the commission of the crime of bigamy, and the trial in such case may take place in the county where such cohabitation shall have occurred."
(Revised Laws of Illinois, 1833, p.198-199)

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:57 pm
by _bcspace
The main reason why Joseph Smith did Not obtain Marriage licenses for any of those to whom he was 'married' and sealed to, is because Bigamy was illegal within the State of Illinois back then.


Sure. Though I was thinking more along the lines of no additional marriage licenses being further evidence that these were not marriages of the type you critics want them to be. Perhaps the fact that there are no children from these sealings is the best evidence for that.

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:23 am
by _Brackite
bcspace wrote:Sure. Though I was thinking more along the lines of no additional marriage licenses being further evidence that these were not marriages of the type you critics want them to be. Perhaps the fact that there are no children from these sealings is the best evidence for that.



Sylvia Sessions (Lyon):

- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church."
(Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:16 am
by _Dr. Shades
bcspace wrote:Sure. Though I was thinking more along the lines of no additional marriage licenses being further evidence that these were not marriages of the type you critics want them to be.

Us critics don't believe they were marriages at all. The only reason we call them "marriages" is out of tradition, nothing more.

Tell us, bcspace, what type of marriages do you apologists want them to be?

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:07 am
by _bcspace
The only reason we call them "marriages" is out of tradition, nothing more.


Ignorance or agenda I'd say.

Tell us, bcspace, what type of marriages do you apologists want them to be?


Speaking only for myself, I have no desire for them to be anything but what they were. Because the evidence suggests they were not marriages out of tradition; they only seem to be sealings.

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:51 am
by _Dr. Shades
bcspace wrote:
The only reason we call them "marriages" is out of tradition, nothing more.


Ignorance or agenda I'd say.

But you apologists--and every other Mormon who happens to know that Smith was a polygamist--calls them "marriages," too. You're the only one out of synch with FamilyHistory.org.

Tell us, bcspace, what type of marriages do you apologists want them to be?

Speaking only for myself, I have no desire for them to be anything but what they were. Because the evidence suggests they were not marriages out of tradition; they only seem to be sealings.

Then A) why does FamilySearch.org call them marriages, and B) why did several women affirm that they were literal, sexual marriages?

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:53 pm
by _harmony
Joseph had the same kind of marriage license for all the women except Emma that Warren Jeffs has.

That's why labeling him an adulterer is so easy.

Re: Marriage Licenses?

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:16 pm
by _Jason Bourne
Sure. Though I was thinking more along the lines of no additional marriage licenses being further evidence that these were not marriages of the type you critics want them to be. Perhaps the fact that there are no children from these sealings is the best evidence for that.


I am not sure how you think this helps. Certainly Brigham Young for almost all his wives acted like they were his wives and sex was part of that. Same for all other 19th century polygmists. D&C 132 teaches that children were part of the reason this supposed command was given. Why would Joseph Smith be any different. Why do you want to argue he was?