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The argument is that if God permits suffering because he cannot prevent it then He is not all-powerful. If He permits suffering though he could prevent it, then he is not all good. The standard reply is that God must allow suffering in order to allow freedom. But, again, if He were all-powerful, He could guarantee freedom without suffering. Joseph Smith revealed that God is himself surrounded by everlasting law, eternal intelligences; hence eternal conditions, He became God by abiding these conditions. He did not create, neither can He destroy them.

It is understood in Mormon theology that element is eternal. When God forms the worlds he brings into being, through the process of organization (The thesis creatio ex nihilo being a false concept) he is taking chaotic matter and purifying and forming it into something useful.

God is responsible neither for the innate limits of uncreated element nor for the eternal and inviolate principles within which the Gospel plan is instituted. By application of these, not by cosmic accident, He became what He is. Likewise He aids all of us in reaching our fulness.

Thus, it is not a "decree" that stress and pain are part of growth and enlightenment. The universe and the selves within it simply operate that way. It is enough to know that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ, though not the source of tragedy, yet have power to enable us to climb above it, into everlasting joy.

As to present ills, we anticipated them. Yet we chose, and chose with knowledge, these very conditions and risks. We might have avoided mortality. Billions did, and thus drastically limited their possibilities.

... source - excerpts from Eternal Man, by Truman Madsen
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No.

As warm and fuzzy Truman makes pain and suffering sound, the Mormon God is a respecter of persons. He murdered Job's entire family just to win a sleezy bet with his son, Satan. I imagine you might object to be the canon fodder known as Job's family - or even a child slaughtered as a philistine by an Old Testament elect bornagain Christian Mormon.

Who do the innocents forgive as they're being gutted with the sword of righteousness?

Here's raining on your parade, Gaz.

Interestingly, this argument cannot be used in conjunction with fine-tuning cosmological arguments for the existence of God. If God isn't liable for pain and suffering because the laws of the universe preclude freedom without them, then God can't be responsible for the laws of the universe.

But other than that, yeah -- Mormon theology deals with the problem of evil much better than does mainstream Christianity.

Yet we chose, and chose with knowledge, these very conditions and risks. We might have avoided mortality. Billions did, and thus drastically limited their possibilities.

Gaz,
You are full of BS, grandest scale.
I can't feel sorry for you. You are a monumental failure. What a waste of life.

Oh, come on, solo. Gaz may be completely wrong, but he's not a jerk who's begging to be knocked down a peg, like Schryver or Pahoran. Give him a break.

Inc.

He murdered Job's entire family just to win a sleezy bet with his son, Satan.

Part of our learning to stand on our own as individuals is God sometimes withdrawing his spirit from us. he did this with Christ as he hung on the cross, he did it with Job as he suffered through his trials, and he did it to Joseph Smith during the extermination order.

He does it to many. He builds us up with the Holy Ghost to a certain period in our development, then withdraws to see if we can stand in this new area on our own. Then he will return to lift us a little higher. Joseph tried to teach this on occasion to the brethren by explaining that at times the Lord will reach in and rend our hearts with trials. He heats and hammers us in his "furnace of affliction".

Base material cannot be changed into something great until the great internal alchemy takes place. that's why the state symbol of Utah is the beehive.

John,

If God isn't liable for pain and suffering because the laws of the universe preclude freedom without them, then God can't be responsible for the laws of the universe.

Your missing the point.

As we know, the glory of God is intelligence. Meaning God knows all things. For intelligence to exist, then laws must exist. For God to know all things, then pre-existent conditions existed for God to know them all. Matter is eternal, intelligence and energy is eternal, and laws are eternal. This in no way lessens God.

Your idea that God is a magic genie that existed in some kind of nothingness and created laws and matter from nothing is an idea placed there by Catholic dogma. I mean no offence in stating this. Lots of bad Catholic ideas exist because of their dominance in media through the ages.

I think the ideas stated in the op are long held Mormon beliefs, I just have never heard them presented in so succinct a manner. That was a real gift of Brother Madsen was his ability to present the Gospel and its grand scope in a more approachable manner.

JohnStuartMill wrote:Interestingly, this argument cannot be used in conjunction with fine-tuning cosmological arguments for the existence of God. If God isn't liable for pain and suffering because the laws of the universe preclude freedom without them, then God can't be responsible for the laws of the universe.

But other than that, yeah -- Mormon theology deals with the problem of evil much better than does mainstream Christianity.

What do you imagine Jesus Christ was doing by fulfilling the will of the Father and suffer an atonement, which only and infinite and eternal being could endure, to rectify all injustice, sin, abominations, injury to innocence and the entirety of evil and suffering of his own creation?
All conflicts between health and wellness evil and righteousness are owned by God who holds sway over all the workmanship of his hands.
Who is going to accuse God foolishly seeing how he suffered in his own body and soul to balance his equation?

Glory be to the Father that he partook and overcame allowing creation to continue, being counted as slain from the foundation of the earth.
All the weight of life's evil proves that there is the justice and righteousness on the other side of the scale.

Hosanna in the Highest
Blessed be the King
That cometh in the name of the Lord.

Gazelam wrote:Inc.

He murdered Job's entire family just to win a sleezy bet with his son, Satan.

Part of our learning to stand on our own as individuals is God sometimes withdrawing his spirit from us.

Gaz,

I suggested that you put yourself in the place of one of Job's family that was slaughtered by this scatterbrained God. Instead you put yourself in the place of Job. Job was rewarded with a new family and new sheep. Why would temporal blessing have any quantifiable value compared to the family that was torn from him?

What did his old family receive? How would you feel if your God ripped your wife and children from you only to compensate you by giving you a drop dead gorgeous blond and Corvette? Think about it, Gaz. What's the lesson here?

The Old Testament/Mormon God is a dumb ass. Getting called out by a fallen angel who's opinion has no value. Satan owned Him.

Literally, who gives a damn about Job's spiritual salvation compared to the cost dealt the innocent? Do you think a perfect God learns from this stuff??

Inc,

I suggested that you put yourself in the place of one of Job's family that was slaughtered by this scatterbrained God.

Did God slaughter them? Or did God withdraw his protection? wasn't the situation based on God Showing Satan that people can be righteous without his influence?

What did his old family receive?

I don't know, your asking me to discern the attitudes and spiritual qualities of a people only briefly mentioned in scripture. I imagine as the mortal offspring of one of the most righteous men who ever lived their chances for exaltation were pretty good.

The Old Testament/Mormon God is a dumb ass.

To paraphrase a quote from Charity, your lack of understanding does not make God a dumbass.

Literally, who gives a damn about Job's spiritual salvation compared to the cost dealt the innocent?

Your being shortsighted.

Do you think a perfect God learns from this stuff??

God is all knowing, so no, I don't think He "learns from this stuff". But I'm willing to bet Satan learned from it.