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It really is sad that so many people's sense of identity seems to come from what they believe.

The problem with it is that their beliefs can be bad, even destructive, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad or destructive people. It also ignores the complexity of individuals. No belief label (like "Mormon", "atheist", "liberal", "conservative", etc) completely describes the whole person. And yet is amazing, for example, how Mormons will say that you are "anti-mormon" (as though you're against the people) if you criticize the belief, when in reality, you're just "anti-mormon-gospel."

Another problem is that when someone criticizes a particular set of beliefs associated with one of those labels, people take offense as theough they are being attacked rather than the way of thinking. It makes it difficult for them to be open-minded about the criticism because they're on the defensive rather than looking at the criticism objectively.

Is there a reason people do this? Do you feel your belief defines you, or do you try to separate the labels from the people?




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Schmo wrote:Do you feel your belief defines you, or do you try to separate the labels from the people?

I have always tried to separate labels from people. It probably hasn't been 100% successful, but it is something I can honestly say that I actively try to do.

I think that core values help define who you are....i.e.....treating people like you want to be treated...feeling that honesty in important....putting family first. These are examples of core values that help define what kind of person I am.

But this whole business of not being able to "agree to disagree" on points of religion and politics baffles me.

I probably have more friends who are not members of the Church than I have friends who are members. I certainly don't view my non-member Church friends as any less "worthy" people, or am offended because they choose to worship at a different Church, or maybe even a different God. Our core values are the same.

Some Schmo wrote:It really is sad that so many people's sense of identity seems to come from what they believe.

The problem with it is that their beliefs can be bad, even destructive, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad or destructive people. It also ignores the complexity of individuals. No belief label (like "Mormon", "atheist", "liberal", "conservative", etc) completely describes the whole person. And yet is amazing, for example, how Mormons will say that you are "anti-mormon" (as though you're against the people) if you criticize the belief, when in reality, you're just "anti-mormon-gospel."

Another problem is that when someone criticizes a particular set of beliefs associated with one of those labels, people take offense as theough they are being attacked rather than the way of thinking. It makes it difficult for them to be open-minded about the criticism because they're on the defensive rather than looking at the criticism objectively.

Is there a reason people do this? Do you feel your belief defines you, or do you try to separate the labels from the people?

One likely reason that people do what you describe is that it’s an easy, simplistic way to pigeon-hole others. It’s especially convenient when a person is not liked. It’s a way of reducing that person to the lowest common denominator which is pejorative.

Most people would like to feel that they are more complex than a singular, especially pejorative characterization.

You never tell the truth, for example is a characterization which nearly anyone would reject as the sum of their identity. Likely, most or many now in prison for a crime have some redeeming attributes. They may have done many good things. They are not in prison for the good things they have done.

That said, there are individuals who generally may fairly be characterized in some of the terms you identified in your post.

JAK

Some Schmo stated:
Is there a reason people do this? Do you feel your belief defines you, or do you try to separate the labels from the people?

To some extent, what people believe does define them. But, thinking people often have complexity of belief which cannot be accurately or adequately summed in a single term. On some issue, a person might be conservative. On another issue, the same person might be liberal.

Hence, to label people in a singular way may be inaccurate or may be a form of personal attack.

JAK

I find it safer to measure a person by their ideals:

Honesty
Integrity
morality
Kindness (charity)
Meekness
Pride (or the lack thereof)
Teachable-ness

You don't get a handle on any of them by knowing whether a person is a "Mormon" or a "democrat"..

Anyone that identifys themselves by a connection to any specific religeon (or any other group).. well, the first thing I check is whether my wallet is already missing.

Does Belief Define the Person?
It certainly does, especially when you talk about Herr DCP.
He is the epitome of Mormonism. How are you going to separate his personality from his religion?
The guy is a "Bishop" for Gods sake!

Inconceivable"]I find it safer to measure a person by their ideals:
Honesty
Integrity
morality
Kindness (charity)
Meekness
Pride (or the lack thereof)
Teachable-ness

Mr. Inconceivable, you won't measure a person any time soon by the standards you mentioned above. I'd hate to think anybody butters me up by attributing any of those standards.
The qualities you seek in a person best stays in him/her as invisible as possible.

Inconceivable
You don't get a handle on any of them by knowing whether a person is a "Mormon" or a "democrat"..

Ho, hoo...You get a huge leap ahead once you figured that fact. I'm not saying though he/she is guilty by association.

Inconceivable
Anyone that identifys themselves by a connection to any specific religeon (or any other group).. well, the first thing I check is whether my wallet is already missing.

Very well said.

solomarineris wrote:Mr. Inconceivable, you won't measure a person any time soon by the standards you mentioned above. I'd hate to think anybody butters me up by attributing any of those standards.
The qualities you seek in a person best stays in him/her as invisible as possible.

Please elaborate. I don't understand your statement.

by the way, Mormons teach that Satan believes and knows the Mormon church is true. Yet, aparrently, he remains dedicated to destroying it. How does his belief in the Mormon church define him?

Inconceivable wrote:

solomarineris wrote:Mr. Inconceivable, you won't measure a person any time soon by the standards you mentioned above. I'd hate to think anybody butters me up by attributing any of those standards.
The qualities you seek in a person best stays in him/her as invisible as possible.

Please elaborate. I don't understand your statement.
by the way, Mormons teach that Satan believes and knows the Mormon church is true. Yet, aparrently, he remains dedicated to destroying it. How does his belief in the Mormon church define him?

You just cannot package this attributes on a person, even your on your best friend. If you knew me & put me a high pedestal like this
we both would be in trouble. From my perspective I trust my family, friends, my employees, my vendors. We do the best we can.

by the way, Mormons teach that Satan believes and knows the Mormon church is true. Yet, aparrently, he remains dedicated to destroying it. How does his belief in the Mormon church define him?
I take it you're talking about our good friend DCP, I don't think he consciously thinks he's hurting the church but where he stands on issues is so transparent. Most of us see it plainly. He is using every charming moves to get along with christian/muslim counterparts. From his angle it seems to work, people like him would not last 6 minutes in my office, even if they'd offer free, no strings attached Hawaiian Vacation.

solo wrote:by the way, Mormons teach that Satan believes and knows the Mormon church is true. Yet, aparrently, he remains dedicated to destroying it. How does his belief in the Mormon church define him?

Except for the mention of the Mormon church, this isn't strictly a Mormon teaching at all.

Schmo,

I think quite the opposite is true. I think that people define the belief.