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DarkHelmet wrote:The church is very big on authority. Only those with the proper authority can lead the church and speak for God since the time of Adam. Has a woman ever had this authority over the past 6000 years? Will a woman ever have this authority? Has a non-white person ever had this authority? I don't mean to be overly PC, because I hate that, but it does seem like God prefers white men to run his church. Is it because Eve ate the apple?

harmony wrote:1. The "church" is only 189 years old, not 6000. And no is the answer to that question. Women in the 189 year old LDS church are useful for 2 things: as walking wombs and for keeping their mouths shut. Neither requires "authority".

2. The Jews had prophetesses. Deborah and Esther come to mind. There is no documentation that they had "authority" as in "priesthood authority as currently consistuted" though. There is also little to no documentation that the ancient prophets had it either, certainly not in the form and method of use that is used today.

3. How non-white does a person have to be, to fall under your non-white catagory? Because Jesus likely wasn't exactly pink and delightsome.

And don't assume that just because men run things in and out of the church that God decrees that it is so. Remember that every time a man says he talks for God, God never appears and backs him up publically.

harmony wrote:1. The "church" is only 189 years old, not 6000. And no is the answer to that question. Women in the 189 year old LDS church are useful for 2 things: as walking wombs and for keeping their mouths shut. Neither requires "authority".

2. The Jews had prophetesses. Deborah and Esther come to mind. There is no documentation that they had "authority" as in "priesthood authority as currently consistuted" though. There is also little to no documentation that the ancient prophets had it either, certainly not in the form and method of use that is used today.

3. How non-white does a person have to be, to fall under your non-white catagory? Because Jesus likely wasn't exactly pink and delightsome.

And don't assume that just because men run things in and out of the church that God decrees that it is so. Remember that every time a man says he talks for God, God never appears and backs him up publically.

DarkHelmet wrote:

harmony wrote: 1. The "church" is only 189 years old, not 6000. And no is the answer to that question. Women in the 189 year old LDS church are useful for 2 things: as walking wombs and for keeping their mouths shut. Neither requires "authority".

2. The Jews had prophetesses. Deborah and Esther come to mind. There is no documentation that they had "authority" as in "priesthood authority as currently consistuted" though. There is also little to no documentation that the ancient prophets had it either, certainly not in the form and method of use that is used today.

3. How non-white does a person have to be, to fall under your non-white catagory? Because Jesus likely wasn't exactly pink and delightsome.

And don't assume that just because men run things in and out of the church that God decrees that it is so. Remember that every time a man says he talks for God, God never appears and backs him up publically.

You're right on non-white men. I'm sure if those ancient guys really existed, they were far from white. The church is 6000 years old. It was in apostacy sometime after Christ died until 1830, but the church started with Adam. He was the first prophet. There were female "prophetesses" in the Bible, but they didn't have the "authority" that a real male prophet has. I was told that they were the equivalent of todays female temple workers. The line of authority was passed down from Adam to a series of men like Noah, Moses, Joshua, Nephi, Moronni, etc., and it was restored by Joseph Smith and continues to be passed down to men. It seems God does decree that than men run things.

Deborah

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(2.) A prophetess, "wife" (woman?) of Lapidoth. Jabin, the king of Hazor, had for twenty years held Israel in degrading subjection. The spirit of patriotism seemed crushed out of the nation. In this emergency Deborah roused the people from their lethargy. Her fame spread far and wide. She became a "mother in Israel" (Judg. 4:6, 14; 5:7), and "the children of Israel came up to her for judgment" as she sat in her tent under the palm tree "between Ramah and Bethel." Preparations were everywhere made by her direction for the great effort to throw off the yoke of bondage. She summoned Barak from Kadesh to take the command of 10,000 men of Zebulun and Naphtali, and lead them to Mount Tabor on the plain of Esdraelon at its north-east end. With his aid she organized this army. She gave the signal for attack, and the Hebrew host rushed down impetuously upon the army of Jabin, which was commanded by Sisera, and gained a great and decisive victory. The Canaanitish army almost wholly perished. That was a great and ever-memorable day in Israel. In Judg. 5 is given the grand triumphal ode, the "song of Deborah," which she wrote in grateful commemoration of that great deliverance.

Deborah

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A prophetess who judged Israel. Judges 4,5. (B.C, 1316.) She lived under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim, (Judges 4:5) which, as palm trees were rare in Palestine, "is mentioned as a well-known and solitary landmark." She was probably a woman of Ephraim. Lapidoth was probably her husband, and not Barak as some say. She was not so much a judge as one gifted with prophetic command (Judges 4:6,14; 5:7) and by virtue of her inspiration "a mother in Israel." The tyranny of Jabin, a Canaanitish king, was peculiarly felt in the northern tribes, who were near his capital and under her jurisdiction. Under her direction Barak encamped on the broad summit of Tabor. Deborah's prophecy was fulfilled, (Judges 4:9) and the enemy's general perished among the "oaks of the wanderers" (Zaanaim), in the tent of the Bedouin Kenite's wife, (Judges 4:21) in the northern mountains. Deborah's title of "prophetess" includes the notion of inspired poetry, as in (Exodus 15:20) and in this sense the glorious triumphal ode, Judges 5, well vindicates her claim to the office.

DarkHelmet wrote:The church is very big on authority. Only those with the proper authority can lead the church and speak for God since the time of Adam. Has a woman ever had this authority over the past 6000 years? Will a woman ever have this authority? Has a non-white person ever had this authority? I don't mean to be overly PC, because I hate that, but it does seem like God prefers white men to run his church. Is it because Eve ate the apple?