Actively teaching lying?

[_zzyzx]

A few problems have come up recently(or I have just noticed them) that have me a bit frustrated. Seems our Fearless Leadership condones actively lying, breaking the law and sees nothing wrong with it. My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's. The message was simple: Don't face the consequences of your actions, lie instead.

Then we have the Salt Lake folk encouraging illegal aliens to lie to authorities(border patrol officers in the family as well as in Ward leadership positions where we attend and visit) and for some reason these leaders don't think living as a fugitive from justice disqualifies them from Temple recommends. I contend living as a criminal should disqualify one from all of it. If you can't be honest you don't get the recommends and the 'wonderful' blessings of The Gospel. I and those I know see this policy as spitting on our efforts to obey/enforce the law. A few in our local/visiting area leadership positions who are involved in enforcement of immigration laws are having some problems with the Salt Lake leadership attitude on this one. Spend the week rounding them up only to see SLC leadership say they should not be doing this and it is OK to be an Illegal Alien. I do know one Bishop who will handcuff these folk if they show up at a meeting. He does not check his responsibility at the door to the chapel. Just as he wouldn't ignore a nutcase threatening the congregation he doesn't ignore those who are breaking the laws by being here illegally.

Can't the fools in Utah and the upper coucils get the idea of 'honesty' in our dealings clear in their minds?

Like it or not, the law is the law and their policies and teachings are impossible to explain and teaching this baloney is a direct affront to those who enforce the law.

[_Nomomo]

My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's.

I find this hard to believe that there is such a Primary lesson as you have described it.

[_Morrissey]

A few problems have come up recently(or I have just noticed them) that have me a bit frustrated. Seems our Fearless Leadership condones actively lying, breaking the law and sees nothing wrong with it. My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's. The message was simple: Don't face the consequences of your actions, lie instead.

Then we have the Salt Lake folk encouraging illegal aliens to lie to authorities(border patrol officers in the family as well as in Ward leadership positions where we attend and visit) and for some reason these leaders don't think living as a fugitive from justice disqualifies them from Temple recommends. I contend living as a criminal should disqualify one from all of it. If you can't be honest you don't get the recommends and the 'wonderful' blessings of The Gospel. I and those I know see this policy as spitting on our efforts to obey/enforce the law. A few in our local/visiting area leadership positions who are involved in enforcement of immigration laws are having some problems with the Salt Lake leadership attitude on this one. Spend the week rounding them up only to see SLC leadership say they should not be doing this and it is OK to be an Illegal Alien. I do know one Bishop who will handcuff these folk if they show up at a meeting. He does not check his responsibility at the door to the chapel. Just as he wouldn't ignore a nutcase threatening the congregation he doesn't ignore those who are breaking the laws by being here illegally.

Can't the fools in Utah and the upper coucils get the idea of 'honesty' in our dealings clear in their minds?

Like it or not, the law is the law and their policies and teachings are impossible to explain and teaching this baloney is a direct affront to those who enforce the law.

I don't believe in an absolute proscription against lying. Taking an absolutist position on this is, in my opinion, morally simplistic.

I also do not consider 'illegal aliens' necessarily to be criminals in a strict sense. I do not see this as black and white either.

I do, however, think it inappropriate for an organization that holds its members accountable for lying, and indeed holds their salvation hostage because of it, to engage in institutional fib-telling, often disguised as spin doctoring or excused because it is a fib of omission rather than commission. I also have a problem with an institution exempting its leaders from the same standards of honesty and probity it demands of its followers.

[_Nevo]

My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's.

I find this hard to believe that there is such a Primary lesson as you have described it.

Me too. In fact, I'm sure there isn't.

Here's how one Primary manual describes the polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800s:

"The Church had problems with the United States government and with the American Indians in the Utah area, but all of these situations were eventually resolved. President John Taylor became President of the Church after Brigham Young died. He was followed by President Wilford Woodruff, who was followed by President Lorenzo Snow (show the picture of Lorenzo Snow).

When Lorenzo Snow became the fifth President of the Church, the Church was deeply in debt. It had been expensive for the Church to solve its problems with the government, and there was no longer enough money to pay for everything the Church needed." (Source)

[_Jason Bourne]

A few problems have come up recently(or I have just noticed them) that have me a bit frustrated. Seems our Fearless Leadership condones actively lying, breaking the law and sees nothing wrong with it. My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's. The message was simple: Don't face the consequences of your actions, lie instead.

I am rather skeptical a primary lesson discussed hiding leaders during the crack down by the federal government on Utah Polygamy.

[_moksha]

My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's.

I find this hard to believe that there is such a Primary lesson as you have described it.

I was wondering about this too. Usually this deception is not mentioned and if such mention does occur, it is minimalized through rationalizations. The two instances that Zzyzx mentioned are themselves at odds with the Articles of Faith.

[_Mike Reed]

zzyzx: My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's.

I find this hard to believe that there is such a Primary lesson as you have described it.

Me too. In fact, I'm sure there isn't.

Agreed.

[Guest]

My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's.

I find this hard to believe that there is such a Primary lesson as you have described it.

Me too. In fact, I'm sure there isn't.

Agreed.

I'm with these guys
.
.

[_Yoda]

A few problems have come up recently(or I have just noticed them) that have me a bit frustrated. Seems our Fearless Leadership condones actively lying, breaking the law and sees nothing wrong with it. My wife refused to teach a primary lesson that glorified lying to law enforcement when the Church leaders were hiding due to polygamy prosecutions in the late 1800's. The message was simple: Don't face the consequences of your actions, lie instead.

I am rather skeptical a primary lesson discussed hiding leaders during the crack down by the federal government on Utah Polygamy.

Could his wife have been looking at some supplemental materials?

ZZyzx, how long ago did your wife teach this lesson? Is this something that was taught in the last couple of weeks, months, ten years ago? twenty?

[_zzyzx]

This was within the past five years. A lesson touching on John Taylor if I remember correctly with accompanying article from The Friend(or Childrens Friend) magazine. The article had a family lying to the sheriff and laughing about it.

My wife refused to teach the lesson and I support her in the decision. Teaching kids it is OK to lie is wrong. Better to discuss the cowardice of 'leadership' who run from the law and hide while letting their lower leadership go to prison. A much better discussion on double standards and "Standing for something... but not really".

The current LDS policy of allowing criminals Temple recommends stinks. Come into the country illegally and laugh at the system and have your Biship and leadership support you in this? A joke and a farce in leadership circles. Turn them in and push them to come back legally. Anything else is wrong.