A Global Church?

[_Mike Reed]

A good article by Stack in the Tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/features/ci_12779040

Thoughts?

[_The Nehor]

They stopped singing "God Save the Queen" in LDS wards in England?

(sigh)

[_Daniel Peterson]

A good article by Stack in the Tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/features/ci_12779040

Thoughts?

It certainly doesn't seem to accord very well with Joey's claim (on his "Question re: 4th July" thread) that, as of about twenty years ago, Mormons were unwilling to "recognize America's greatness," but that perhaps we're now beginning to do so.

[_Mike Reed]

It certainly doesn't seem to accord very well with Joey's claim (on his "Question re: 4th July" thread) that, as of about twenty years ago, Mormons were unwilling to "recognize America's greatness," but that perhaps we're now beginning to do so.

I missed that thread, Dan. There is no doubt in my mind that the Church has had a long history of US patriotism. This patriotism becomes quite obvious when sifting through 19-20th century LDS litterature and photographs. Indeed, there may have been a season (spanning a few decades) just following Smith's murder, that the Church was quite the contrary... but ever since the turn of the 20th century Latter-day Saints became patiotic to the extreme--showing the world that they were even more American than Americans themselves. 4th of July and Statehood Day celebrations were very elaborate, and (as I understand it) Latter-day Saints became the first (and only?) religious organization to ever adopt Scouting as an official program for Church youth.

Check out a couple of these photos:
http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/u?/GEA,8931
http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/u?/GEA,4625
http://www.lib.utah.edu/portal/site/mar ... 9e619bRCRD

Now, it seems, US patriotism is interfering with the Church's desire to become a world religion. It will be interesting to see the adjustments the Church makes in order to remedy this “problem.”

[_Daniel Peterson]

Joey has an obsessive personal grudge against me, for some reason, but none (that I recall) against you.

So I don't anticipate your being barraged with juvenile insults from him on this issue (among others), as I have been.

But you're completely right, and he's spectacularly, obviously wrong.

[_Mike Reed]

Joey has an obsessive personal grudge against me, for some reason, but none (that I recall) against you.

So I don't anticipate your being barraged with juvenile insults from him on this issue (among others), as I have been.

Maybe it is your Mormon celebrity status that makes you the attractive target.

But you're completely right, and he's spectacularly, obviously wrong.

I am afraid to check out that thread now, since I'd rather not get caught up in the cross-fire.


Regarding the patriotic shift that happened around the turn of the 20th century... I find this quote to be a good illustration:

“If there be an American religion, ‘Mormonism’ must be that one. No other religious system makes such claims for America as does ‘Mormonism.’ No other religion has made America such holy ground by its teachings and history. The ‘Mormons’ have placed America along with Palestine and made the Holy Land to share its honors with the Zion of the West. The Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus visited the ancient inhabitants of this continent, walked and talked with them and taught them the principles of the Gospel. The Lord's feet have pressed American soil. We ‘Mormons’ claim an American prophet. All other religions look to other lands for theirs. The founders of the Christian sects were German, or Scotch, or Swiss. The founder of ‘Mormonism,’ through God, was an American, a descendant of the Pilgrims. Other religionists limit angels’ visits to a far eastern land. We claim that the West also has been sanctified by the presence of heavenly beings. Others confine apostles and inspired men to a past age, and an Old World nation. We say that God has raised up American apostles, and the inspiration of the Almighty can be and is given to Americans.” Christian Nephi Anderson, “Are We Americans?” (October 1900), Improvement Era 3, no. 12, In LDS Library 2006 [CDRom] (LDS Media, 2006).

I don't think we should expect statements like this to be published in the Ensign any time soon.

[_cinepro]

Acknowledging that the Book of Mormon is referring to a mesoamerican geography could be a good first step in tempering LDS patriotic zeal for the USA.

[_krose]

... No other religious system makes such claims for America as does ‘Mormonism.’ No other religion has made America such holy ground by its teachings and history... The Lord's feet have pressed American soil.

Sure, that's what Smith and subsequent prophets have said, but we now know from current apologetics that all those 'chosen land' scriptures in the Book of Mormon were really referring to a small area in Central America (or perhaps all of the American continents), not the United States, which they clearly mean when they say "America" and talk of national patriotism.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Acknowledging that the Book of Mormon is referring to a mesoamerican geography could be a good first step in tempering LDS patriotic zeal for the USA.

I tend to agree, actually. An unintended by-product.

[_krose]

Regarding the global nature of the church, I think the third world is their only real hope for continued convert growth (other than birth rate). For the most part, the people who convert to a new religion are the poor and downtrodden, as evidenced by the near-zero success rate in affluent areas such as Western Europe and Japan. Most of the people who talked to us or agreed to be 'taught' when I was in Japan were just interested in us, as Americans, and our culture (and language).

The problem is that their staying power (retention rate) is also poor. When only active members are considered, I believe the LDS church is going to be a predominantly US organization (Western US even) for quite a long time.

Can you imagine the church leaders getting as involved in local Bavarian or Brazilian political issues as they do in Utah? I can't.