BoM-(for Gaz)

[_marg]

Marg,

Please start a thread after reading 2 Nephi Chp.2

I would love to hear your comments and opinions in regards to that chapter.

Thanks

Gaz

Well Gaz, I've finished 2 Nephi ..starting on Bk of Jacob next. You'll have to be more specific about what it is you are interested in.

[_Gazelam]

Marg,

Well Gaz, I've finished 2 Nephi ..starting on Bk of Jacob next. You'll have to be more specific about what it is you are interested in.

I'd like your commentary on vs. 11-29. Perhaps contrast it with the standard world understanding of the Fall, and your opinion on the pros and cons of the two viewpoints.

[_marg]

contrast it with the standard world understanding of the Fall, and your opinion on the pros and cons of the two viewpoints.

Briefly the point being made is that as long as one believes that Jesus died for mankind's sins as per the "Fall" which is a Christian concept, and Jesus is the son of God" then that's what it takes to avoid hell and live an eternal life..after death.

Other Christian groups as far as I know believe that God decides who goes to heaven and hell..I think the term used is "Grace" and it is not a function of what they believe nessessarily or what sort of moral values they have.

The Fall of Man, or simply "the Fall," in Christian doctrine refers to the transition of the first humans from a state of innocent obedience to God, to a state of guilty disobedience to God. In the Book of Genesis, Adam and Eve live at first with God in a paradise, but are then deceived or tempted by the serpent to eat fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which had been forbidden them by God. After doing so they become ashamed of their nakedness, and God consequently expelled them from paradise. The Fall is not mentioned by name in the Bible, but the story of disobedience and expulsion is recounted in both Testaments in different ways.

[_Gazelam]

Marg,

While you have focused on a very important aspect of the chapter, I was more interested on your opinion regarding Gods reasoning behind the Fall, the purpose of it.

Gaz

[_marg]

Marg,

While you have focused on a very important aspect of the chapter, I was more interested on your opinion regarding Gods reasoning behind the Fall, the purpose of it.

Gaz

I believe the reasoning given in the Christian storyline is that man(Adam & Eve) disobeyed God and hence was imperfect and in order for men to be accepted and forgiven by God then some sort of offer to appease him was necessary. Hence God has himself come to earth, so that he can shed blood, sacrifice himself on behalf of others. and can forgive and accept mankind in his presence in the afterlife. In the O.T. sacrificing of animals, shedding blood was supposed to be pleasing to God.

[_Gazelam]

Marg,

What is your opinion as to the reasoning behind the Fall as portrayed in 2 Nephi chp.2 ?

Gaz

[_marg]

Marg,

What is your opinion as to the reasoning behind the Fall as portrayed in 2 Nephi chp.2 ?

Gaz

Are you specifically referring to the following:

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no achildren; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no bjoy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no csin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who aknoweth all things.
25 aAdam bfell that men might be; and men care, that they might have djoy.

So based on the above the story line without the Fall/disobedience, by eating fruit from the tree of knowledge..Adam & Eve now know good from bad. They no longer will live in a state of perpetual bliss and oblivious to problems. By disobeying, they now will experience the hardship and joy of having children and experience trials and tribulations of life. So because of the yin and yang, the ability to appreciate contrasts they will know the difference between joy and hardship and appreciate ..joy and bliss & happiness as a result.

[_Gazelam]

Marg,

Correct, that is what I was refering to. What is your opinion of that? As I understand it, that view of the Fall is unique to Mormonism. An understanding of that view gives one an entirely new perspective on life and our purpose here.

Gaz

[_marg]

Marg,

Correct, that is what I was refering to. What is your opinion of that? As I understand it, that view of the Fall is unique to Mormonism. An understanding of that view gives one an entirely new perspective on life and our purpose here.

Gaz

I think you might have to explain to me why you think it is a positive comparable to an alternative religious view.

I've had a few glasses of wine with my dinner. I'm not thinking as clearly as without, but I still enjoy the wine. Do you think I should refrain from wine with my dinner, if yes, why?

So my perspective is the following. We have nothing to compare to ..that is a life without any issues, any problems, any choices, just infinitie ultimate bliss. No body in this world knows what that would be like. Some people might feel they've experienced bliss temporarily but throughout an entire life everyone has some problems of some sort.

As an atheist I appreciate that to experience the good things in life to some extent one must appreciate how things could be much worse. If all you ever experience is good things and that's your bench mark there is a tendancy to not only take them for granted but to not fully appreciate them as you possibly could. However if all I experienced was terrible things in life, they might overshadow the few good things and I might not really be grateful, I might be resentful. It's also more complex than that because people have different intelligences, different dispositions. Some people are naturally happy go lucky, some naturally depressed. Some people are emotionally immature even though intelligent. Some people make poor decisions. Some people are lucky, they have good role models, good support system, or just simple luck. Luck for instance in being born into a country with good standard of living, luck being born at a time when quality of life for the average person in some countries is higher than it's ever been historically.

So I'm not sure whether the particular storyline in Nephi ch 2, which might influence a particular world view, in this case for you..makes much difference to one's worldview positively or negatively. Perhaps you can discuss further what your thoughts are.

[_Paul Osborne]

I've had a few glasses of wine with my dinner

You're a drunk! A drunken women. Forget the wine. Try Jack Daniels black lable.



Paul O