intro

[Guest]

somethings bothering me ... back to looking around ....

here's a bit of an intro:

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/Manti_anyone_think_1980ish/

[_harmony]

somethings bothering me ... back to looking around ....

What's bothering you? Something about here?

[_RockSlider]

What's bothering you? Something about here?

A re-occurring memory that hits me from time to time as I ponder past experiences. One of the few, I suppose, that I have not worked out yet. It hit me again the other day ... bringing me back to some mormon-soul-search surfing.

A post here from the other day "Questions for former and inactive church members(LDS)." has brought me back here to post a question/thoughts.

First off, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm basically agnostic at this point in time (but neck deep in TBM family/culture)

Some thoughts, like the very personal one I'm about to share here ... I suppose keep me wondering.

So, question ... any good thoughts here on pre-destination ... take the following true life experience for some thought material.

If you read my intro link, I mentioned working with Hersel Pederson in the Timpanogos temple (he was in the temple presidency at the time). Hersel was well known for giving powerful blessing to temple workers if they asked for one, which I did.

While sitting in his office in the Timpanogos temple, with his hands on my head to start pronouncing a blessing ... I fly flew into his mouth. He abruptly quit, sputtering and spitting, all but vomiting into a near by garbage can. When he had regained his composure, he quickly finished a short and now meaningless blessing.

A very strange coincidence, or a very powerful sign of predestination?

by the way, this was at a time of my "maximum height of worthiness" (i.e. self righteousness).

[_Rollo Tomasi]

While sitting in his office in the Timpanogos temple, with his hands on my head to start pronouncing a blessing ... I fly flew into his mouth. He abruptly quit, sputtering and spitting, all but vomiting into a near by garbage can. When he had regained his composure, he quickly finished a short and now meaningless blessing.

A very strange coincidence, or a very powerful sign of predestination?

I think it was nothing more than a fly flying into his mouth. It happens.

[_harmony]

A fly in the temple? How could that be? I don't think I've ever seen a bug in the temple.

I don't have much faith in signs and such, so the fly isn't a big thing to me. Now if he'd suddenly lost his voice, that might make me stand up and take notice!

You were a temple worker? And fairly recently, since Mt Timp hasn't been open all that long. Why did you ask him for a blessing?

[_Black Moclips]

Welcome Rockslider -

I went to the link and read your bio, and all I could think of is "wow". I felt your pain in that post, I really did. I even chuckled as I remembered my first version of Infobases and how awesome I thought it was (I still think its sort of awesome). And the ever elusive quest for meat that no one else really cares about. Anyway, I connected with what you wrote. Just wanted to let you know that.

[_RockSlider]

A fly in the temple? How could that be? I don't think I've ever seen a bug in the temple.

Exactly … part of the big ponder

I don't have much faith in signs and such, so the fly isn't a big thing to me. Now if he'd suddenly lost his voice, that might make me stand up and take notice!

Let’s see, choking/spitting/double clutching … yea, he pretty much lost his voice there for a few moments!

You were a temple worker? And fairly recently, since Mt Timp hasn't been open all that long.

Yes, I had worked for several years in the Provo temple, where I live was moved into the Timp temple district . I was the endowment director on Friday nights when the Timp temple first opened its doors. It's actually been a while now ... I've been "inactive" since 2002

Why did you ask him for a blessing?

It was fairly well understood, by several of the workers that sought, that Hersel had his calling-n-election. Hersel had his inside channels to the top … he was used by them for things like dealing with folks who have done the exodus to Manti for example. He was a trouble shooter as it were for the church.

He used to make mention of things like the “FBI”, obviously an insider’s joke, and yet not (“Family Bureau of Investigation") which went both ways … lists/records were obviously keep ... for those that were part of the solution and those that were part of the problem. (Damn, more information for my file!)

Well of course I had grandiose ideas of being a big part of the solution. I suppose my reasons for asking for the blessings were with hopes of help in fulfilling these desires.

Black Moclips … THANKS! … much appreciated.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

It was fairly well understood, by several of the workers that sought, that Hersel had his calling-n-election. Hersel had his inside channels to the top … he was used by them for things like dealing with folks who have done the exodus to Manti for example. He was a trouble shooter as it were for the church.

Could you explain what you meant by the "Pedersen letter" mentioned in your bio? I've not heard of it. And, also, Pedersen's connection to the apostate group in Manti? I've read about the group, but don't know anything of Pedersen's involvement. Thanks.

[_RockSlider]

Could you explain what you meant by the "Pedersen letter" mentioned in your bio? I've not heard of it.

It’s been a long time, sorry for inaccuracy in this account, but the concept is solid … I believe it was a correspondence between Pederson and a Bishop who was struggling with the something like the Adam-God types of issues (the letter never mentioned exactly what the item of doctrine was) .

In the letter, Pederson told of another story that he was familiar with, so as to help the Bishop with his struggle. The basic concept of this story was:

A man started teaching some things he had learned (by study and by witness of the HG). A stake president called a court against him for what he was teaching (the stake president had a “chapel Mormon” level of knowledge of the topic at hand). The man used his right of appeal and they all ended up in front of a high up GA/President (sorry don’t remember who or if it was a president, but definitely an Apostle).

The conversation then went like this – the GA to the Stake president – you will leave this man alone because what he has taught is the truth – the GA then turned to the man and said --- If you ever teach this again we will excommunicate you.

Of course many lost their BYU jobs, membership in the church, moved to Manti etc. in the next few years that followed over the same personal dilemma . It was the beginning of an interesting era, where the concept of “keep your mouth shut” was made well known.

One night, while waiting for the last veil, Pederson and I were talking in the Sealing area waiting room. Wanting to know if the well known (at that time) Pederson letter was an urban legend, I asked him about it.

Hersel is a type A personality, loud and known … I will never forget his response:

“That letter has been my HELL” he bolts out.

“Yes the bishop leaked it and I’ve been trying to clean up the mess ever since.”

And, also, Pedersen's connection to the apostate group in Manti? I've read
about the group, but don't know anything of Pedersen's involvement. Thanks.

Pedersen’s connection would have been very much behind the scenes, working closely with those on the verge of heading down, Heading excommunication courts with the individuals involved (and trying to get some to come back) .
Hersel was a powerful speaker (i.e. in conveying gospel principles and convincing people to them).

[_Doctor Steuss]

somethings bothering me ...
[...]

I hope you are able to find satisfactory resolution (one that hopefully helps you to better know yourself, and become the change you wish for the world).

As to the fly story, I tend to side with Rollo. Sometimes a fly is just a fly. Random things happen at inopportune moments. I think this was probably one of those random things (G-d, after all, wouldn’t have wanted to impede on the fly’s free will, you know ;-)).

The real question is whether or not he then swallowed a spider...