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When Bushman proposed that Joseph Smith's seer stone treasure hunting career was God's way of preparing him to find and translate the Book of Mormon, it seemed like a theory that was dead on arrival.

But no, it appears to be catching on with other apologists, which probably means they've found it to be a clever way to save a testimony or two.

Here is part of an interview Brandt Gardner talking about the paper he is delivering today at the FAIR Conference.

"It is true that Joseph Smith did some treasure hunting" with seer stones says Gardner, and he used the same process to translate much of the Book of Mormon. But Gardner says the people at the time didn't find anything strange about it.

Since then the LDS church has become a what Gardner calls a 'great tradition' religion or a 'real religion' and has a need for a 'great tradition' religious history. But some aspects of church history seem strange to modern day readers, so the church "reconstructs some of it's history to feel better about how that picture fits with what ought to be a real religion."

When asked about the relationship of Joseph Smith being both a treasure seeker and a prophet Gardner responded that Joseph didn't evolve from treasure seer and seeker into a translator and prophet. Instead it was a major shift in direction. "It was was categorically different ... it wasn't an evolution, but a definite turning point."

Being a treasure seeker taught him it was possible to obtain the the book that was inscribed on gold plates. "What the seer stone did is tell him that he had some sort of talent for seeing" -- a gift the Lord could use for other purposes.

http://www.examiner.com/x-19393-Salt-La ... ion-method

Hi Henry,

Just yesterday I was reading some interesting research on compliance and how difficult it is for people to change their minds once they have committed (publicly and in written form) to a particular view.

Even when the initial reasons for making a commitment are proven totally false, the committed person will make up reasons why their position was the correct one.

I find it an amazing phenomenon of the human brain!

:-)

~td~

Henry Jacobs wrote: But some aspects of church history seem strange to modern day readers, so the church "reconstructs some of it's history to feel better about how that picture fits with what ought to be a real religion."

It's stuff like this that makes me think the Brethren have little if any oversight into what these guys say. I can't see this one getting past the correlation committee... or the Brethren's weekly meetings.

Henry Jacobs wrote:Being a treasure seeker taught him it was possible to obtain the the book that was inscribed on gold plates. "What the seer stone did is tell him that he had some sort of talent for seeing" -- a gift the Lord could use for other purposes.

http://www.examiner.com/x-19393-Salt-La ... ion-method

So does Gardener believe the seer stone actually worked for treasure hunting? For Joseph to believe he had a talent for seeing before the Lord used him for other purposes, he had to have had success with his seer stone while seeking treasure.

Gardner said:

(T)he people at the time didn't find anything strange about it.

I was wondering what he meant by this statement. Is he talking about people living in Boston at that time? or New York? or just the locals who lived in the vicinity of Joseph?

Or is he just referring to those who started following him? Of course, if that is the case, well,...he isn't saying much of anything really, is he?

Henry Jacobs wrote:When asked about the relationship of Joseph Smith being both a treasure seeker and a prophet Gardner responded that Joseph didn't evolve from treasure seer and seeker into a translator and prophet. Instead it was a major shift in direction. "It was was categorically different ... it wasn't an evolution, but a definite turning point."

Being a treasure seeker taught him it was possible to obtain the the book that was inscribed on gold plates. "What the seer stone did is tell him that he had some sort of talent for seeing" -- a gift the Lord could use for other purposes.

I'm sorry, but this is simply asinine.

Just how desperate to believe does one have to be to buy into this half-baked explanation? Would any of these people buy such tripe in any other context?

And these are presumably otherwise rational intelligent people who believe this crap?

OH. MY. GOD.

The FAIR trainwreck just keeps getting worse and worse:

"It is true that Joseph Smith did some treasure hunting" with seer stones says Gardner, and he used the same process to translate much of the Book of Mormon. But Gardner says the people at the time didn't find anything strange about it.

???

If they didn't find anything strange about it, then why did they haul him into court in 1826??

Since then the LDS church has become a what Gardner calls a 'great tradition' religion or a 'real religion' and has a need for a 'great tradition' religious history. But some aspects of church history seem strange to modern day readers, so the church "reconstructs some of it's history to feel better about how that picture fits with what ought to be a real religion."

Oops! He just admitted that the church whitewashes its history. Dead man walking!

Being a treasure seeker taught him it was possible to obtain the the book that was inscribed on gold plates.

???

Why the Hell did it take being a treasure seeker to teach him it was possible to obtain the gold plates? Wasn't the visit from the Angel Moroni enough?

Dr. Shades wrote:OH. MY. GOD.

The FAIR trainwreck just keeps getting worse and worse:

"It is true that Joseph Smith did some treasure hunting" with seer stones says Gardner, and he used the same process to translate much of the Book of Mormon. But Gardner says the people at the time didn't find anything strange about it.

???

If they didn't find anything strange about it, then why did they haul him into court in 1826??

Since then the LDS church has become a what Gardner calls a 'great tradition' religion or a 'real religion' and has a need for a 'great tradition' religious history. But some aspects of church history seem strange to modern day readers, so the church "reconstructs some of it's history to feel better about how that picture fits with what ought to be a real religion."

Oops! He just admitted that the church whitewashes its history. Dead man walking!

Being a treasure seeker taught him it was possible to obtain the the book that was inscribed on gold plates.

???

Why the Hell did it take being a treasure seeker to teach him it was possible to obtain the gold plates? Wasn't the visit from the Angel Moroni enough?

I understand as well that Nephi liked to decapitate kittens and puppies when he was a wee lad. However, that he liked to decapitate helpless animals taught him it was possible to obtain the brass plates by lopping off the head of a helpless man lying in the gutter.

(by the way Could not Nephi have simply taken Laban's clothes after binding, gagging, and hiding him?)

Morrissey wrote:I understand as well that Nephi liked to decapitate kittens and puppies when he was a wee lad. However, that he liked to decapitate helpless animals taught him it was possible to obtain the brass plates by lopping off the head of a helpless man lying in the gutter.

LOL

(by the way Could not Nephi have simply taken Laban's clothes after binding, gagging, and hiding him?)

Speaking of Laban's clothes, why didn't Zoram notice all the blood and gore that saturated them?

Dr. Shades wrote:

Morrissey wrote:I understand as well that Nephi liked to decapitate kittens and puppies when he was a wee lad. However, that he liked to decapitate helpless animals taught him it was possible to obtain the brass plates by lopping off the head of a helpless man lying in the gutter.

LOL

(by the way Could not Nephi have simply taken Laban's clothes after binding, gagging, and hiding him?)

Speaking of Laban's clothes, why didn't Zoram notice all the blood and gore that saturated them?

Hmm, this line or ex-post excuse making . . . er argumentation . . . offers up all sorts of possibilities.

A teenager being grilled about masturbation by his Bishop could respond that masturbating taught him that it was possible to obtain an ejaculation preparatory to having intercourse.