Mormon, Porn, and Masturbation. (Easy now, Paul)

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Chime. Enter Nyal.

Masturbation is a fascinating topic, because it cuts right down to the very core of the (bad) religious experience.

Religion produces a service, just like every other construct of humans. The service could be a lot of things, depending on what the individual is looking for. On the positive side, it gives a sense of focused self sacrifice and help each of us to make sense of the world and hones feelings of love for each other.

A healthy individual can achieve this on their own, constructing a deity and world view in their own image. For most people, this is more than enough to get the services that religion offers. Harmony, for example, has created or recognized a god that works for her, not the other way around. Consequently, she is happier and healthier than if she had attempted to fit the church's mold.

The problem for an organized religion, is that they are not needed. People can and do find deep satisfaction in their own personal religion and might meet with similarly minded folks to worship, but ALWAYS, the church is there as a tool, not an end. If the church does not meet their needs, they can leave without any sense of guilt or trepidation.

So the Organized Religion must create a need that isn't there. And he must do so in an unhealthy way. He will stand upon his box shouting to the spiritually free: Do ye suppose that ye are happy? Do ye suppose ye hast all that thou needs? He continues by showing you a ritual dunking, a secret ceremony, a perfect prophet, more scriptures. If these aren't enough he will shame you with a perfect deity that you should be like, using natural urges to control you, or branding you with the scarlet letter of apostasy if you stray. He stresses you teach this to your children, so he might control them as well. For those who are part of the "greater work" they have lost the good that religion can bring them and groan under a new system.

Masturbation is the most common thing amongst the male youth of the church. Every male does it, especially when young. What better opportunity to control, to create a need that wasn't there before?

You, young man, you thought that self pleasure was okay? Shame! it is self abuse! You posses no self control! How can you expect to inherit all that god has to give you if you cannot be chaste? Repent! And who can forgive you? Not just god, not just yourself, but me, your shepherd!

It is no accident that the road to repentance leads right through the bishop's office.

Blessed are those that think. Most of us were raised within this culture, we are conditioned to see the world in a certain way. Us and them, in and out, saved or damned. We have to learn. it isn't even our parent's fault, they are also raised this way. But blessed are those that think, that try to make sense of it all, for it will lead them out of bondage.

Gaz speaks of control, self control. Isn't that what it is? One controlling oneself?

[_Paul Osborne]

Gaz,

I’m not ignorant of Mormonism. I understand the doctrine, traditions, and culture -- some of which has been wrongly perceived as doctrine.

I will agree with you that we are to have our bodies under control and live the law of chastity which is to commit no fornication and no adultery. That’s it!! The Doctrine & Covenants pretty much spells it out. It doesn’t say, “Young man, you cannot touch your private parts in the middle of the night to feel pleasure.” God never said that by way of commandment, but sadly man has all by himself made commandments and teaches them as if they are doctrine from the heavens.

I think you should take the teaching from Joseph Smith about making sacrifice to achieve salvation in the context by which it was given and not apply it to your pet commandment which is, “young man, keep your hand off your penis!” This talk about being a slave to ones body is just overdone. We are spirits housed in these bodies and we are also prisoners. God wants us to enjoy our bodies and not look at them with shame.

The commandment is simple: No fornication and no adultery. Masturbation is a man made rule that men made up for the boys. Interestingly enough the girls are off the hook and get to enjoy all the pleasure of their private parts with no hassles from the bishop. Such a double standard, right? That's right, the girls get to masturbate all night long and the bishop has no idea and doesn't even ask about it. It's all about hazing the boys.

It's priesthood hazing and it's wrong!!!!!

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

HARMONY, my love,



I agree with you about pride in the leadership of the church. I don’t like to mention that very often because in Mormonism it’s dangerous to do so. But let’s not kid ourselves. Pride has always been a recurring matter among God’s people since the dawn of time. It appears that General Authorities are worshipped by some members of the church as if they are a divine voice 24/7. They can do no wrong. They are infallible and we are supposed to subject ourselves to their every whim and breath.

But we know better. Shall we let man become God to us? Hell no! We have to be on guard because man (especially white collar men) will always try and take advantage.

I think when Jesus returns he will release all of the General Authorities and call new ones. It’s turned into a club of men of certain class and education. They have left the working man out. The blue collar man has no real power in the church. The white collar men have screwed it up!

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

[quote="liz3564"]Amen, Paul!!! quote]



The visual scenes are pretty good. Enjoy!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x82bjd ... n_creation

Paul O

PS. THE ONE SMILIE RULE CREATED BY DR SHADES REALLY SUCKS. IT SUCKS!!!

[_marg]

God wants us to enjoy our bodies and not look at them with shame.

This is a toast/grook written by Piet Hein which seems to apply here. (edit just checked his version is different..I prefer the changes I made)

God may be a pretense,
The mind makes very little sense,
So let us enjoy the appeal,
Of that which we can taste and feel.


You don't know if a God exists let alone what a God wants Paul, but you do know that men within the church create rules. It seems that rules regarding masturbation for men, serves a number of functions for a church. If men don't masturbate, they are more likely to have sex, hence to get a woman pregnant, hence additional potential church members. That's why they care about men, but not whether women masturbate. It also puts men into a vulnerable emotional position when the church is allowed to dictate private aspects and find out about private aspects of a person's life.

[_Paul Osborne]

Marg,

I never looked at it that way. I can clearly see you are a nonmember, but I appreciate your perspective nonetheless.

Have a great day!

Paul O

[_Gazelam]

Paul and Harmony and whoever else,

Your lack of understanding does not make God, or the First Presidency, liars.

[_Paul Osborne]

Your lack of understanding does not make God, or the First Presidency, liars.

Gaz,

I understand quite well. First, God is not a liar. But, men, even prophets have used their position to force their views on others. This was wrong. I don't think you will see President Monson make the same mistake regarding oral sex as universally practiced among the human race. The brethen need to stay out of the bedroom and keep their own sexual beliefs private!! When they undertake to force their sexual DESIRES on others then they will stand accountable before God and must repent of their sin. When they do this, members of the church have every right to tell them to take a hike.

Paul O

[_Gazelam]

Okay, first off.....

Moses chp.5
13 And Satan came among them, saying: I am also a son of God; and he commanded them, saying: Believe it not; and they believed it not, and they loved Satan more than God. And men began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish.


and then.....

Mosiah chp.3
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

and now...

[_Paul Osborne]

carnal, sensual, and devilish

Does this mean masturbation and oral sex? I thought the real meaning of the natural man had to do with how they treat other people in a bad way. But Mormon bishops are open to getting sued if they venture further.

Leave the bedroom out of it, Gaz. No one has the right to judge others by their own personal sexual standards! Not even the prophet! If the General Authorities have something against blowjobs then they can keep that to themselves and live accordingly. How dare anyone tell another what they can or can’t do in bed! How dare them! This nonsense is not born of God's love but of earthly men seeking power over others.

Are the leaders of the Church going to tell us what positions couples can have under the sheets? How many inches, what locations, what parts, etc? Where will it end? They are going to get sued to high heaven. Just watch.

Paul O