Question concerning Joseph Smith and the Bible.

[_Dr. Shades]

And if they did not have an agenda there were ten Druids lurking about who did.

I respectfully request that you cease and desist revealing the agenda of us Druids.

[_MMAFighter7]

24: 1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to Him to call His attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" He asked. "I tell you the truth not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. "Tell us" they said. "when will this happen and what will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?"

Jesus goes on to tell one story. He does not say this is when the temple will fall and this is when I will return. They as 2 questions that are replied to with 1 single answer.

And once again, thank you for avoiding my question.

Hello? tap! tap! tap!
Anybody in there?
Please do not attempt to reply if you are not really replying. Try to hit the ball as it is thrown to you.

I answered your question. I put the value of a prophet on his ability to help others accomplish the gospel of Jesus Christ. You did not want to play ball on that score. Small wonder.

Our universities spew out thousands and thousands of trained lawyers who can rethink everything under the son to make black white and white black. You are muckraking Joseph Smith. I could go back and show every Biblical prophet a fallen and false prophet by the same criteria you are using against Joseph Smith.

You want me to validate the muck you sling. To me it vaporizes before it hits the wall. Sorry. Go fish.

You sould like you may be trying to convince yourself more then you are me.
I moved to SLC about a month ago, started dating girl from the LDS church, and agreed to meet with missionaries. This is on of the many questions that I have that they avoided or told me that they don't know after going through all of the lessons they had.
If this is how you treat someone who has honest questions when investigating your church I fear for your soul, and if it is any indication of how the other members act, I fear for theirs as well.

[_Nightlion]

Hello? tap! tap! tap!
Anybody in there?
Please do not attempt to reply if you are not really replying. Try to hit the ball as it is thrown to you.

I answered your question. I put the value of a prophet on his ability to help others accomplish the gospel of Jesus Christ. You did not want to play ball on that score. Small wonder.

Our universities spew out thousands and thousands of trained lawyers who can rethink everything under the son to make black white and white black. You are muckraking Joseph Smith. I could go back and show every Biblical prophet a fallen and false prophet by the same criteria you are using against Joseph Smith.

You want me to validate the muck you sling. To me it vaporizes before it hits the wall. Sorry. Go fish.

You sould like you may be trying to convince yourself more then you are me.
I moved to SLC about a month ago, started dating girl from the LDS church, and agreed to meet with missionaries. This is on of the many questions that I have that they avoided or told me that they don't know after going through all of the lessons they had.
If this is how you treat someone who has honest questions when investigating your church I fear for your soul, and if it is any indication of how the other members act, I fear for theirs as well.

So then, you are this young guy with an anti-mormon tract in your hands. You keep asking me to answer your question. I did.

My answer requires a direct response for the dialogue to progress. You are unwilling to finish what you started. What ever else you say is pointless.

[_MMAFighter7]

So then, you are this young guy with an anti-mormon tract in your hands. You keep asking me to answer your question. I did.

My answer requires a direct response for the dialogue to progress. You are unwilling to finish what you started. What ever else you say is pointless.

I'm far from anti Mormon. I'm far from anti anything. I can accept a lot if it can be backed up. I'm not claiming that I'm 100% right either. What do you feel like I am avoiding that's keeping this conversation from moving forward?

[_Nightlion]

So then, you are this young guy with an anti-mormon tract in your hands. You keep asking me to answer your question. I did.

My answer requires a direct response for the dialogue to progress. You are unwilling to finish what you started. What ever else you say is pointless.

I'm far from anti Mormon. I'm far from anti anything. I can accept a lot if it can be backed up. I'm not claiming that I'm 100% right either. What do you feel like I am avoiding that's keeping this conversation from moving forward?

You queried why is Joseph Smith accepted as a prophet if he failed in prophecy according to your or somebody's reading of them.

I said he is a prophet because he taught the correct gospel of Jesus Christ that gets the promise of the Father even the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

You should then inquire something like,

I have not even heard that there is a baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Then I would open the scriptures from Adam down and throughout the entire Book of Mormon to show you the blessing that comes with the correct knowledge of God.

A conversation stalls when you cannot move on and keep up and refuse to leave the first cause. I rendered that utterly moot. Do you want to know if Joseph Smith was a true prophet or no?

The LDS will not make this point. It has been lost on them for more than one hundred years. They are incompetent to teach it because they have no experience at it in the least. I could very well be the only surviving legacy of the gospel taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

All the LDS books I have perused or checked out, written in the last one hundred years, fail to mention with any degree of expertise the power of godliness, which is precisely what God the Father did in fact restore to the earth by his prophet, Joseph Smith.

[_MMAFighter7]

You queried why is Joseph Smith accepted as a prophet if he failed in prophecy according to your or somebody's reading of them.

I said he is a prophet because he taught the correct gospel of Jesus Christ that gets the promise of the Father even the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

You should then inquire something like,

I have not even heard that there is a baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Then I would open the scriptures from Adam down and throughout the entire Book of Mormon to show you the blessing that comes with the correct knowledge of God.

A conversation stalls when you cannot move on and keep up and refuse to leave the first cause. I rendered that utterly moot. Do you want to know if Joseph Smith was a true prophet or no?

The LDS will not make this point. It has been lost on them for more than one hundred years. They are incompetent to teach it because they have no experience at it in the least. I could very well be the only surviving legacy of the gospel taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

All the LDS books I have perused or checked out, written in the last one hundred years, fail to mention with any degree of expertise the power of godliness, which is precisely what God the Father did in fact restore to the earth by his prophet, Joseph Smith.

What exactly do you feel that you have knowledge of that the missionaries, or any of my friends are unble to share with me?

[_harmony]

What exactly do you feel that you have knowledge of that the missionaries, or any of my friends are unble to share with me?

Nightlion was excommunicated from the LDS church for apostacy.

[_RockSlider]

What exactly do you feel that you have knowledge of that the missionaries, or any of my friends are unble to share with me?

Nightlion was excommunicated from the LDS church for apostacy.

dang harmony, based on his last few posts I figured he must have translated ... your sure?

[_Nightlion]

What exactly do you feel that you have knowledge of that the missionaries, or any of my friends are unble to share with me?

Nightlion was excommunicated from the LDS church for apostacy.

That's apostasy to you Ms Buttinsky

[_Nightlion]

What exactly do you feel that you have knowledge of that the missionaries, or any of my friends are unble to share with me?

As my fair antagonist has well pointed out I was excommunicated from the LDS Church eighteen years ago next September. I openly professed that LDS leadership was spiritually incompetent. Meaning that they do not comprehend what the gospel of Jesus Christ is and can not rightly guide anyone to accomplish it successfully.

And that of course answers well what I can do for you. The missionaries will tell you to join the Church because you know that it is true. And that's it. Well. of course be a good person, sure.

I will teach you how to appropriately come unto Christ so that he will open and let you into the kingdom of God receiving the earnest of your faith, the unction that warrants you are Christ's, even the promise of the Father, no less than the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. In this day and age of overwhelming forces of spiritual distractions you need a master teacher. Only one who has actually accomplish it knows what you are up against in our day.

This all depends on your willingness to come unto Christ with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy. Let me just give you taste of the difference.

In the sermon on the mount Christ is teaching the real gospel. Of course, what else? In that sermon he admonishes us to take no thought for our lives, what we shall eat, or put on for raiment. He said let tomorrow take thought for itself. Sufficient the day unto the evil thereof. Why? What did he mean? Then he said seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

This is the standard for getting God's attention. For no man comes unto Christ except the Father draws him. If you do not forsake the world and the crafts of men and stop all other concerns in your life, for as long as it takes, and only seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness, you cannot get in. That is why Christ said it. Before God will honor you, you must honor him. Yes, honor him with this degree of respect, faith and desire. All your heart, might, mind and strength is enough.

The only exceptions are involvement in an extraordinary miraculous conversion on the spot with some tremendous act of God manifesting a great event of staged wonder for his own purposes.
That can happen. Why wait? My way is more certain to happen.

Well, the missionaries are not going to tell you anything like that. Why? Because they only want you to join the Church. Nobody in the LDS Church is the least concerned with seeking the kingdom of God and his righteousness. If they were seeking, and that successfully, they could not withhold Zion from being among them.
There is no Zion anywhere among them. Not any. Nowhere.

A type of fabled Zion fantasy is taken for granted by them in bucket loads of pride and hypocrisy. They are the best of the best and the chosen generation and a royal priesthood. The most choice spirits of Heavenly Father reserved for these last days. They are born of a divine nature which they want you to acknowledge as yours too IF you will agree with them. A sort of immaculate salvation.

That is heady stuff. Why do you need Christ if you already partake of a divine nature that you brought with you from the courts on High? They really are that puffed up. So forget about the meek of the earth and the poor in spirit.

The LDS have a slam dunk on salvation. Christ is only a crutch to fall back on IF one happens to slip and need a Savior. No! It is not so incredible. They will deny this on the surface because it smacks of such arrogance. But deep within it is their entire hope. It is a perfect guise for their hypocrisy. There is no evidence needed to qualify their divine nature. It is a birthright. Because they just know so much.

In their arrogance, only really rotten sinners need a dramatic conversion like a baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. LDS brush off all the commandments and defer to the elitism of a consensus of pride.

Small wonder that the gospel has been formally taken from among them as Christ warned about these days of great pride.
See 3 Nephi 16.

O, let's see, what was it they did to sin against the gospel? Cast out the righteous! Yes! What else? September 15, 1991 Provo, Utah Stake. President John Chamberlain presiding.

I guess that I would not have been this brutal if Ms Buttinsky had not been quite so rude. But this is a tuff crowd. Naysayers all.