Why I Left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[_lostindc]

Wow, this is the nuttiest message board ever

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Wow, this is the nuttiest message board ever

Please feel free to contribute to quality discourse at any time.

Then please DIAF.

[_lostindc]

Wow, this is the nuttiest message board ever

Please feel free to contribute to quality discourse at any time.

Then please DIAF.

What does DIAF stand for Mr. Journeyman?

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Do It All Fortnight. It's an encouragement for you to stay and play with us a while.

[_Paul Osborne]

Wow, this is the nuttiest message board ever

Have another blow for your nose.

Paul O

[_emilysmith]

Daheshist,

You are a very interesting character. I think you are externalizing some serious issues onto other people and even the LDS church. I can't even believe how many times you say "lie" "lied" and "liar."

Your reactions to people on this topic are very telling. You know nothing about these people and you are automatically on the attack. You quickly jump to conclusions and I have to wonder if you are even reading responses. I also find myself wondering if you are even the real Darrick Evenson. There is a breed of "troll" that just makes ridiculous and outrageous statements to get a negative response out of people. If you are not actually a troll, then you need to reconsider your debate tactics.

Essentially, you have accomplished nothing besides establishing your lack of credibility.

You are on the right track, in regards with the Mormon church, but it seems for the wrong reasons. In general, there isn't a massive deceit going on. Sure, maybe from a few people, but most LDS are sincere folk who try to lead good lives. There isn't a giant atheist conspiracy to make things up in order to deceive those who believe in God.

I admit I am not familiar with the tenets of your faith, but I did notice that it credits certain names associated with religion. Abraham was, most likely, not a real person. Jesus, most likely, was not a real person. Mohammed, if he was real, didn't write the Quran. I have never looked into Buddha, but it is my experience that figureheads are magnets for corruption. Martin Luther King Jr. plagiarized his doctoral thesis. Ghandi was racist and referred to the black people in South Africa as "kafirs." Mother Teresa generated millions of dollars and never spent any of it on the children she was supposedly saving. The list goes on and on, so you may be wise to heed the words of Mr. Lebowski and turn some of your paranoia towards any religious authority.

Robert Heinlein once told L. Ron Hubbard, "If you want to become rich, then start your own religion." Hubbard did just that. If I wanted to get rich, have tax exempt status, then the religion I created would be one that included the faith of as many other religions as possible... something that everyone could get on board with. What better way to lend credibility than to claim the religious figures of other religions for your own? Islam did the exact same thing. Christianity stole John the Baptist and others.

There are a number of tricks people use establishing credibility and authority. You may consider a perusal of "Manufacturing Consent" from Noam Chomsky.

Dishonest tactics do exist, and you should use logic and reason to the best of your ability to suss out what can be trusted. A little paranoia can even be healthy when in the pursuit of truth... but I think your paranoia stems from something deeper. You aren't objective in any way, shape or from, from what I can tell.

Maybe it is time to take a break from protesting the church and start focusing on your own mental health.

Good luck.

[_moksha]

Three corrections:

Ghandi was racist and referred to the black people in South Africa as "kafirs."

Kafir is the Islamic word for "unbeliever". It is used widely for those who are not a member of the faith.

Mother Teresa generated millions of dollars and never spent any of it on the children she was supposedly saving.

Mother Teresa was a member of a religious order and as such did not have the final say as to the disposition of any donations.

Robert Heinlein once told L. Ron Hubbard, "If you want to become rich, then start your own religion." Hubbard did just that

.

Not only is this just an anecdote, you got it backwards. Hubbard was supposed to have made the bet. In real life, George Orwell jokingly made such a suggestion back in 1938 in a letter about creating a religion to make money.

[_Malcolm]

Daheshist,

Your OP seems to be an attack, not just on the LDS faith but on everyone and everything. After over 30 years or so I am no longer a member, but for the most part, the LDS community are decent, honest, folk, some of the things you say are just not ringing true.

There is medication for Schizophrenia!

[_Droopy]

I went to the local Institute of Religion Director, a Brother Blackner, and started to ask him questions, hoping he would have ready answers to the Anti-Mormon claims I had read in the Anti-Mormon books I found at the local Christian bookstore. Instead of ready answers, his face got cherry read, and he YELLED AT ME, saying, "WE ARE ____NOT___ TO QUESTION THE BRETHREN! HOW....DARE...YOU QUESTION THEM! Just ignore that anti-Mormon junk! JUST IGNORE IT! Now GET OUT...I have work to do!"

bs

My initial perception precisely. He we are with yet another exit story containing elements so obviously fabricated (as anyone with any long term experience as a faithful, active Latter Day Saint can tell you) as to be intelligence insulting.

I had my first initial encounter with EV counter-cult literature at right about the same time Evenson did, in 1977 - 1978 a Pt. Loma College, a small private EV college, during my freshman year. I spent most of my teenage years in San Diego, and I knew several of the Institute teachers their, and had met the director. Evenson's claims regarding his experiences with these individuals, and their general temperament and attitude, are, to say the very least, highly questionable.

The Church has never had an policy or doctrine regarding not questioning the Brethren such that an attitude similar to that which Evenson claims he found in his Institute directer would be anything but utterly bizarre. I attended Institute (off campus) for several years in San Diego (at the San Diego Sixth ward) and we discussed EV anti-Mormonism a great deal. Never at any time did I encounter anything even approximating the attitudes Evenson describes.

His past recollections of the Hoffman affair are also, shall I say, suspiciously out of harmony with the Church I've long known and been a member of.

I too understood well before Hoffman was exposed that the Salamander Letter was a fraud. I don't know if all of the Brethren knew it or not, and I've never thought for a second that it makes any difference as to their divine callings and ministerial authority.

Again....Mormons don't "question" their leaders!

Utter nonsense. The Church has always taught that, if a question arises as to anything the Brethren have said, we are to "study it out in our minds" and then ask the Lord to clarify or clear up any questions we may have through prayer and the principle of revelation.

Following these princiles is exactly how I negotiated my initial encounter with anti-Mormon literature, something that apparantly sent Mr. Evenson into a tailspin.

This was not my experience, though I encountered the same literature in Christian bookstores and at an EV college.

They blindly follow them.

Nonsense.

Most Mormons don't know the Hofmann story.

Perhaps many don't, but most of my generation I've known do, at least to the basics.

Most who do say, "Well, I have a testimony that Gordon B. Hinckley was a true Prophet of God, and did what the LORD wanted him to do in that situation!" In other words, FACTS MEANS NOTHING! The FACT that Hofmann FOOLED Mormon Church leaders for five years, men who claim to able to READ THE THOUGHTS AND INTENTIONS OF OTHERS, means--to the faithful Mormon--____nothing___.

Whether Hoffman "fooled" the Brethren is irrelevant, since this implies that the Lord would not allow the Brethren to, on their own, make what may in retrospect be understood to have been a mistake in accepting Hoffman's forgeries as legitimate.

What Evenson doesn't seem to understand here is that, in the Last Days context, there is an ongoing and pervasive "weeding out" underway among, not only the World, but among the Saints themselves. The tares are being slowly but surely separated from the wheat, and it is precisely various situations such as the Hoffman affair (or the ERA, or Prop 8, or blacks and the Priesthood, plural marriage, or church teachings on music, media, personal grooming standards, etc.) that are the sifting mechanism.

The Lord is not going to prevent all potential crisis of faith from occurring because it is precisely the differentiation of those living on borrowed light from those who have the testimony and witness within themselves - the rock" spoken of by John, that is made explicit by such situations.

[_MsJack]

Look, Daheshist hasn't logged into this forum in almost eight months, and personally, I'd like to keep it that way, so can I put in a respectful request that we all refrain from necro'ing his threads?

Thanks in advance.