Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

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Kishkumen
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Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Kishkumen »

Today Kerry Shirts spoke about the Hebrew Goddess at Sunstone, and he really did a fantastic job. So, too, did Maxine Hanks and Ed Goble. I will focus on Kerry Shirts in this post because he did some things that I thought were noteworthy. First of all, he took on President Gordon B. Hinckley for declaring that there is no praying to Mother in Heaven in the Bible. As it happens, Kerry argues, the Bible does have prayers to Mother in Heaven! He also argued that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is . . . . drum roll, please . . . . Mother in Heaven! Mother in Heaven also declares Jesus Her beloved son at his baptism. The list goes on and on.

One of the most remarkable things of all, however, is not what he was teaching, but how he proved himself a bigger person by recommending that everyone interested in Mother in Heaven go read Daniel C. Peterson's "Nephi and His Asherah," as a must. For all the tension that brews between those two corners of Mormon discourse, that Kerry Shirts should unreservedly praise DCP's work in public with genuineness and vociferous support is remarkable to me. Kerry thus demonstrates his sterling character.

I also have to say something about Ed Goble's fine presentation because he did something rare in Mormon scholarship. Ed argued in favor of seeing the hand of God in Joseph Smith's borrowing from his environment. And, I say, that if you are a believer, you should take Ed's argument seriously. I was appreciative of Ed's work to help faithful LDS people be less afraid or disturbed by the evidence for such borrowing on Joseph Smith's part. If progress is going to be made in how LDS people react to good scholarship, it will be made partly because people such as Ed made an excellent case for embracing these findings in a faithful way.

Maxine Hanks did an amazing job at laying out what Western esotericism is, why understanding it is vital to understanding Mormonism, and then providing a succinct history of Mormon scholarship in a Western esoteric vein. I would recommend, if you are interested in seeing in advance something of where Mormon historical scholarship on Mormon origins is heading, that you check out Maxine Hanks' Sunstone talk from this session. She did a fantastic job.

That is my Sunstone report of the session I was able to attend. I wish I had been able to attend many more, but a lot of things are bearing down on me in my life--nothing too bad, don't worry, but enough to distract me from benefitting as much as I would have liked from all the great talks at Sunstone this year. I had hoped to be able to see Cheryl Bruno, Gazelam Ale, and Josh Baird speak on Mormon Tarot, but, alas, I was unable dammit. I will console myself by checking out my new Joseph Smith Tarot deck made by Cheryl Bruno!
Last edited by Kishkumen on Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Moksha »

Hopefully, a video of this session will be coming to YouTube.
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Res Ipsa »

Thanks for the recap and props to Kerry.
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Kerry is the man!!


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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by consiglieri »

Good comments all, Reverend.

But this paean would not be complete without remarking on what a knowledgeable and engaging lecturer Mr. Trevor Luke proved himself to be! Bravo!

It finally came home to me how Western esotericism was rejected by Jew and Christian alike until Joseph threw wide the doors of his church to welcome it back to the fold.

How the Mormon aversion to talking about Church History from the time of the apostles until the First Vision helps to especially obscure the esoteric well from which Joseph drank so deeply.

Well done, all!

(I watched it live this morning so am in a position to know.)
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by msnobody »

I've been waiting on the return and report. Thanks for the synopsis, Kish. I'm glad you guys met with success and enjoyed one another's company.
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Philo Sofee »

That was very nice of you to say Kish. Thank you. I must say I am not even in the same league as the rest of you presenters in our group however. Every presentation was really excellent, and I am so grateful I was a small part in such a terrific subject, with terrific scholars, and fabulous presentations. I must say, quite frankly Ed Goble just blew me away! I was deeply impressed with his presentation. Well worth watching the session for!

Maxine begun the session, and we had zoom sessioned last night with her and she was all like acting fussy and worried that she didn't have her notes correct, and then she delivers her presentation today and just brings the house down! That woman is a Goddess all the way around! Truly impressive! Her approach was to identify and coalesce Mormonism more into a paradigm of alchemical unification of opposites with so many illustrations from Joseph Smith's "Restoration" theology of not only doctrines, but rituals, such as the temple endowment.

And then Kishkumen took over with his superb power point and discussed the history of the various narratives in dealing with history and esotericism. Mormonism is not the only narrative, and it is a narrative within a larger corpus of critically important narratives to contextualize the esotericism which Smith properly drew from, whether on his own (without question he DID), as well as with help no matter how (revelation, angels, etc). He coined a new and wickedly fantastic word of which Mormonism, unfortunately, is guilty of incorporating within its paradigmatic narrative too often, that of "epistemicide." One of the most fantastically weird, yet truly proper descriptive words I have ever seen! I was marveling at how succinct, definitive, and overall instructive his presentation was! He shared an early draft with me, then a corrected draft, and at the last minute, changed it up again into a power point presentation and just stole the show! VERY WELL DONE TO ALL the presenters in our group.
I am humbled and grateful to be associated with such fine human beings as you all are, and once again thank you so much for considering me to take part, and I look forward to MANY more adventures with you Kish! I am, indeed, thy servant of association, scholarship, and deep important friendship. Let esotericism once again take hold, instruct, and prevail!
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Philo Sofee »

Yes, if I might add a footnote...Hinckley looked in the right book when he said he didn't find anything about praying to a heavenly mother in the Bible, his error was in looking at the wrong language. Instead of finding it in English, which you won't do, you need to look at the Hebrew, (and it's in the Suptuagint Greek, though not as prominant) and then it comes absolutely ALIVE! I used only 2 examples of 30 I have found, and there are more. It is one reason I will revise the paper it's out of date, and there is much more to add from the Zohar now also...
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Kishkumen »

How the Mormon aversion to talking about Church History from the time of the apostles until the First Vision helps to especially obscure the esoteric well from which Joseph drank so deeply.
Nothing gets by you, consiglieri! You are exactly right. Obscuring your sources in this way is very much in keeping with the Western esoteric tradition.

Thank you for your kind words.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Kerry Shirts Rocks Sunstone!

Post by Kishkumen »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:41 am
Yes, if I might add a footnote...Hinckley looked in the right book when he said he didn't find anything about praying to a heavenly mother in the Bible, his error was in looking at the wrong language. Instead of finding it in English, which you won't do, you need to look at the Hebrew, (and it's in the Suptuagint Greek, though not as prominant) and then it comes absolutely ALIVE! I used only 2 examples of 30 I have found, and there are more. It is one reason I will revise the paper it's out of date, and there is much more to add from the Zohar now also...
You are a great man, Mr. Sofee. Dr. Nibley advocated two things in regards to finding knowledge: learning the languages and reading the books. You have done both with gusto, and the positive results speak for themselves. Kudos! Great work!
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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