For Consig..MAD folks should eat crow after conference!

[_Yoda]

BC...

Based on the SS President's talk yesterday morning, it sounds like Consig is the perfect example of the kind of teacher that should be teaching gospel doctrine.

Probably so, if he doesn't confuse pride and shock and awe with inspiration. There can be a fine line between the three.

WhyMe, I have had this conversation with you before. It seems like you and I read completely different accounts of Consig's lesson.

The point of Sunday School is to be spiritually uplifted and learn a little more about the gospel. Consig successfully combined both of those elements. Why are you so hell-bent on criticizing him? Maybe you're jealous of his ability to do something you can't do?

[_RockSlider]

Shock and awe.
If I were a teacher, and was able to obtain awe in the student, seems that would be a sign of success.
As for shock. Many concepts worthy of further pursuit (i.e. pondering/prayer) we received by me with shock on initial presentation. Many of these were the catalyst to the pondering/prayer that lead to awe. Maybe that's why we find those two words often coupled.
Somehow, skillful teachers are able to deliver a message that is not only simple enough for the understanding of the novice, but profound enough for the ears of the expert, with all being edified.
In most any Mormon GD type of class, the audience is experienced, and possibly somewhat lethargic after years of experience in the topics at hand . I suppose there is a fairly fine line between a firm nudge and a shoving a sleepy person right off their chair.

Nudge away Consig, some may require a bit more of a shove of course.

[_harmony]

... most people on MAD who know more than the average ...

That would be one... maybe two.

[_why me]

Who are you to say what inspiration allows? Maybe the Spirit directs people to use "shock and awe".

You know, the arrogance of believers never fails to amaze me. They can position a system in which God speaks with us directly, but they sure as hell feel free to say what God can't or can say to others.

Consig is very learned. Only he can know if pride interferes with his inspiration. It certainly can do so. And also, a very learned lds person with experience on MAD can be full of themselves and attempt to shock and awe the members and wait for the reaction. Only he can know if he has the shock and awe spirit. I am only saying that a person needs to see the difference between inspiration and pride and shock and awe.

[_why me]

WhyMe, I have had this conversation with you before. It seems like you and I read completely different accounts of Consig's lesson.

The point of Sunday School is to be spiritually uplifted and learn a little more about the gospel. Consig successfully combined both of those elements. Why are you so hell-bent on criticizing him? Maybe you're jealous of his ability to do something you can't do?

I am not being negative about him at all. I was just saying that a learned person needs to be careful between pride and inspiration. And a MAD person who knows much about lds history needs to be careful of the shock and awe spirit. Now if he feels genuine inspiration, that is fine. But he will need to ask himself if it is inspiration or pride that is entering into his lesson.

Personally, I think that it is inspiration. But if he is not careful, pride can enter into his inspiration.

[_why me]

Shock and awe.
If I were a teacher, and was able to obtain awe in the student, seems that would be a sign of success.
As for shock. Many concepts worthy of further pursuit (i.e. pondering/prayer) we received by me with shock on initial presentation. Many of these were the catalyst to the pondering/prayer that lead to awe. Maybe that's why we find those two words often coupled.

Memories are short. In 2003, we shocked and awed Iraq. The people were shell shocked. That is what I mean by shock and awe. No teacher should shell shock their class. The point is not to numb the class but to cause life to enter the class through discussion and inspiration.

[_bcspace]

BCSpace, if the Spirit of God tells you to do one of those things, then you do it!

I'm quite certain the Spirit will not so direct.

I believe it was Joseph Smith who said "That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.”

I believe it. So?

Based on the SS President's talk yesterday morning, it sounds like Consig is the perfect example of the kind of teacher that should be teaching gospel doctrine.

Based on the tale of his exploits so far, I'm pretty sure he he often exaggerates for our enjoyment.

Did you read the discussion involving Consig's Sunday School lesson?

No. I'm speaking more broadly about his overall exploits.

He did stay on topic. He also used the manual, but expanded on it with outside souces. He gave a very thoughtful, spiritually uplifting lesson

Sounds good to me. I try to do the same when I teach. My outside sources though still tend to be doctrinal works published by the Church.

and the folks at MAD were still giving him grief because he wasn't strictly sticking to the manual.

He did once say "screw the manual" which will probably stick with him. It seems likely to me that he's violated the directives I posted earlier if the tales be true. I'm not saying though that he's never been right in going off the beaten track.

If you'll examine my previous post more carefully, you'll see no bashing of consig, just a listing of directives given to those teaching in the Church. I do remind consig from time to time about his "screw the manual" comment......

[_John Waite]

BC...

Did you read the discussion involving Consig's Sunday School lesson? He did stay on topic. He also used the manual, but expanded on it with outside souces. He gave a very thoughtful, spiritually uplifting lesson and the folks at MAD were still giving him grief because he wasn't strictly sticking to the manual.

Based on the SS President's talk yesterday morning, it sounds like Consig is the perfect example of the kind of teacher that should be teaching gospel doctrine.

I saw that thread. I did not notice that anyone criticiszed consigileri for not strictly following the lesson manual. Plus, I heard Brother Oguthorps [sp?] talk yesterday. I think your taking his words out of context. He only meant that a teacher should be willing to respond to inspiration during a lesson not that themanual should be disregarded.

[_harmony]

I am not being negative about him at all. I was just saying that a learned person needs to be careful between pride and inspiration.

I'm sure you've given this advice to many other learned persons, right?

[_consiglieri]

Hey, Consig!

If any of the MAD folks who gave you a hard time about your Sunday School lesson were listening to conference this morning, they should be eating crow.

Per the General Sunday School President who spoke today:

"When appropriate, sometimes you have to set down the manual and teach through inspiration."

Hi, Liz!

Thanks for thinking of me. I appreciate it. Folks on the MADBoard thought of me, too, but it was during Elder Scott's talk. The thread has been closed after getting too "personal," but I will post a link for it here for anybody who might be interested in reading it.


http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/ ... he-church/

The subject started about "conditioning" in the Mormon Church, but rapidly veered away from that when Elder Scott made a disparaging comment about a Sunday school teacher who seemed more interested in showing off what he knew than in teaching his class.

I started a new thread over there about my feelings about Elder Scott's comments, and we'll see what responses it garners.

Thanks again!

--Consiglieri