Chicago Fire of 1871

[Guest]

I've never been to Chicago, so I've spent quite a bit of time planning next week's trip. I'll be staying at the Palmer House, which I discovered was built in September of 1871 and then destroyed by the Chicago Fire only thirteen days later. It was quickly re-built and remains one of Chicago's most beautiful hotels. I'm excited to stay there.

Reading about the history of the Palmer House led to my reading a bit more about the Chicago fire. One of the places destroyed in the fire was Wood's Museum, which was thought for years to have housed the entirety of the original Book of Abraham papyri, until the papyri were discovered in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and given back to the LDS church.

Book of Abraham scholarship hasn't generally been of much interest to me, neither as a member nor as an ex-member. I follow the discussion loosely. I know there are arguments as to whether or not the fragments discovered at the Met constitute the entirety of the papyri. I am unsure of what happened to the mummies. Were they destroyed in the Chicago Fire? Lost elsewhere?

Anyway, getting 'round to the point: I thought, until about five years ago, that the papyri were completely destroyed in the Chicago fire. I had no idea they had been discovered and translated by proper Egyptologists. I understand the "fragments" were published long ago in the Ensign, and that there have been some few other Ensign articles dealing with the Book of Abraham controversy, but I guess I never got around to noticing those articles, probably either because I was too young or because I was overwhelmed with kids and multiple callings and housework and gardening and canning and teaching children to read and studying my scriptures and other various and sundry work that a woman must do. In other words, I was lazy and content to be an uninformed loser.

But no matter why I was uninformed, the fact is that I was an uninformed fully active Mormon. The discovery of the papyri was never mentioned in Sunday School classes. I didn't have a Consiglieri as a Gospel Doctrine teacher. I think mine was more Jeff K. ;-)

After learning of the discovery of the papyri and finding that they were nothing more than common Egyptian funerary documents, I went to talk to my Bishop. He had no idea that the papyri had been discovered! Not a clue. He also thought they had been destroyed in the Chicago fire. When I told him that the general consensus of Egyptologists was that the Book of Abraham couldn't possibly be a translation of the papyri, he told me to stop reading anti-Mormon literature. I let him know I'd also been reading about the Book of Abraham from sites friendly to the church--that I wanted to be aware of all sides of the issue. I handed him some information I'd printed off the SHIELDS site, I believe it was authored by Tvedtnes, and my Bishop refused to even look at it, laying it face down on the coffee table.

My former Bishop and I aren't the only two folks ignorant of the history of the papyri. The LDS author of this blog article didn't know, until 2001, that the papyri had been discovered, and he was a returned missionary. It seems he was disseminating the same faulty information I was given--that the papyri had been destroyed in the Chicago fire--to investigators. From my anecdotal evidence, I'm not sure one can conclusively say that the Mormon church hides its history, but it certainly isn't easily forthcoming with it.

While in Chicago, I'll be visiting the Oriental Institute, the stomping grounds of Robert Ritner. I'm sure the exhibits there will be extremely interesting. I'm also looking for some really good pizza, so if anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them. :)

At Navy Pier, I'm going to write my name on the back of a leaf and watch it float away. I'll do my best to scribble it in Reformed Egyptian, in honor of my Mormon heritage and in tribute to the Book of Abraham papyri, which the church probably wishes really were burned in the Chicago fire.

KA

[_MsJack]

Hey KimberlyAnn,

I'm in Vernon Hills, north of Chicago, if you have any interest in meeting up. I'd offer you a tour of the Trinity campus, but it's kind of small and boring to just walk around.

As far as the Book of Abraham goes, this response left on my blog a few weeks ago is pretty typical of what I've gotten from LDS members. He called the Book of Abraham objection "inane." He said:

The Sensen scrolls which contained the Book of Breathings have not been the source of the Book of Abraham. Contemporary descriptions by several witnesses would not match the manuscripts with what Joseph translated. John Gee has done quite some work on that subject. There’s simply not enough material to actually prove/disprove it.

It amazes me that people think the recovered papyri were not the source for the Book of Abraham. The papyri contains Facsimile 1. It just defies logic and reason.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
While in Chicago
...

If you have the time and energy, you might want to also visit the
library of the Chicago Historical Society. Most of their Mormon
collection is on microfilm, but you might want to look at their
Joseph Smith document originals -- just to touch something from
that far back in history.

Have fun,
UD

[_CaliforniaKid]

Chicago is famous for its deep dish, but I'm not a fan. Just make sure you don't order Canadian bacon. They'll look at you like you're a complete nutter.

While you're at the Oriental Institute, you could always ask to see the correspondence of Klaus Baer. I'll bet there are plenty of juicy tidbits in there about the Book of Abraham. Maybe even a letter from Nibley instructing Baer not to tell anyone the whereabouts of the rediscovered papyri fragments. And if you did happen to find such a thing, you could make photocopies and mail them to me... :-P

I totally should have done that myself while I was living over there. I just never quite got around to it.

On a more serious note, the museum of science and industry is quite good.

[_huckelberry]

Chicago has the best art museum in America west of New York. If your interests go in that direction you might find Matisse more spriitually helpful than Mormon history.

I think that Mormons are settling on the view that the actual papers by Abraham were burned in the fire. It is clear that associated papers from Egypt that Joseph had and used were found. The papers he marked on and use for the published illustrations were found but associated with these were once the Book of Abraham. It was burnt in the fire leaving only the husk so to speak.

I have seen this explaination from Mr Peterson and he has an eye for the simplest explainatin with the most resistance to disproof. This selective editing by fire is a theory with elegance, simplicity and resiliance to disproof.

Provided you are capable of believing it.

I remeber the Ensign article by Nibley. It came out rather soon after I had arrived at disbelief. I found myself thinking that this papyrus thing must be a mess for Nibley to try and float the theories he tried. I thought he was willing to say absolutely anything to support Joseph Smith.( I remember something like the text looked like Breathing Permit but unknown to generations of Egytian copiest it contained an invisible coding created by Abraham containing his book.)

And if a person believes doing that is sort of natural. Nobody can disproove absolutely Joseph Smiths claims. I think it is the piling up of problem after problem which undermines confidence in that happy secure belief.

If it werent for...
Too few Indians in the Book of Mormon
Too much 19th century Protestant religion in it. etc.

But do not take my word for things. I have an overriding distaste for mystagoguery which probably colors my opinion.

[_The Dude]

I think it is the piling up of problem after problem which undermines confidence in that happy secure belief.

Here you have the key, huckelberry. Each apologetic tidbit is fairly reasonable on its own, but if when you are able to stand back and look at the house of cards as a whole, it is very hard indeed to take this defense of Mormonism seriously. Reality should not need so many excuses.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Jack: I'm a meeter-upper at heart, so I'd love to find you there in N. Chicago, but I'll be in town with a never-Mormon who hasn't the least bit of interest in Mormonism and who is planning the largest part of the trip, so I'm trying to keep it as Mormonism-free as possible. I think I could bore someone to death with my odd interests were I not to check myself. :) Also, the argument that we don't have the papyri from which Joseph Smith "translated" the Book of Abraham just doesn't hold water. It is inane!

Uncle Dale: I'm trying not to Mormon overload there in Chicago, but I must admit that I'm tempted by the Kinderhook plate that's there at the Chicago History Museum...must resist...

Celestial Kingdom: If I had the time and a travel companion interested in Book of Abraham issues, I'd dig around for hours in Klaus Baer's papers and mail you any photocopies you might want. I would love to do that. Maybe the next time I'm in Chicago. I do remember your blog post about the Oriental Institute and I'm Real Excited to go there myself, even if I don't get to dig around in the archives.

Huck: You are so right that I'll be more spiritually filled by the art at the Art Institute of Chicago than by anything to do with Mormonism, and I plan to go there the first day. Millennium Park (provided it's not raining), then the museum. :)

I'll be having supper one evening on the 95th floor of the Hancock Observatory at the Signature Room. I'll check out the Field Museum, too, and the Haunted Chicago Tour just for Halloween kicks. I don't believe in ghosts, so I'll have to keep my mouth shut and my eyes from rolling throughout the entire tour, probably. ;-)

Dude: I agree that Huck hit the nail on the head. For every "glitch" in Mormonism, there seems to be a way for the apologists to pacify most believers, but the sheer number of "glitches" is simply overwhelming. The amount of twisting and turning needed to defend the Book of Abraham alone is enough to make most folks' heads spin. Truth shouldn't require such mental gymnastics.

KA

[_Gazelam]

Kim,
I still say your gator picture is an old one. I refuse to believe that's recent, lol

If you really want to undertand the Book of Abraham you need to look at the contents. For a guide I beg and plead with you to listen to this talk on the Abrahamic Covenant. Click Here . If its more convenient it is available free on itunes under "Pearl of Great Price Discussions" in that group click on "The Abrahamic Covenant".

The Prophets Oct.1st journal entry from 1835 states that "during the research, the principles of astronomy as understood by Father Abraham and the ancients unfolded to our understanding."
Early on Oliver Cowdery reported that "When the translation of these valuable documents will be completed, I am unable to say; neither can I give you a probable idea how large volumes they will make; but judging from their size, and the comprehensiveness of the language, one might reasonably expect to see a sufficient to develop much upon the mighty acts of the ancient men of God, and of his dealings with the children of men when they saw him face to face."

In 1838 Anson Call visited the prophet in Far West. Joseph invited him in and said, "Sit down and we will read to you from the translation of the Book of Abraham.' Oliver Cowdery then read until he was tired when Thomas Marsh read making altogether about two hours. I was much interested in the work."

There are also accounts of the scrolls being unrolled, filling up the floor and going down the hallway of the house. The little that we have are simply fragments.

For an interesting take on facsimile #2 read this old post of mine: click here

[_richardMdBorn]

Hi KA,

They're a lot of good pizza places. I recommend Lou Malnatti's. The one in River North is close to the Palmer House at 439 N. Wells.
http://www.loumalnatis.com/Locations/Details.aspx?ID=7

UC has good free lectures downtown.
https://grahamschool.uchicago.edu/php/o ... hp?oi=5097

Richard

[_JAK]

I've never been to Chicago, so I've spent quite a bit of time planning next week's trip. I'll be staying at the Palmer House, which I discovered was built in September of 1871 and then destroyed by the Chicago Fire only thirteen days later. It was quickly re-built and remains one of Chicago's most beautiful hotels. I'm excited to stay there.

Reading about the history of the Palmer House led to my reading a bit more about the Chicago fire. One of the places destroyed in the fire was Wood's Museum, which was thought for years to have housed the entirety of the original Book of Abraham papyri, until the papyri were discovered in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and given back to the LDS church.

Book of Abraham scholarship hasn't generally been of much interest to me, neither as a member nor as an ex-member. I follow the discussion loosely. I know there are arguments as to whether or not the fragments discovered at the Met constitute the entirety of the papyri. I am unsure of what happened to the mummies. Were they destroyed in the Chicago Fire? Lost elsewhere?

Anyway, getting 'round to the point: I thought, until about five years ago, that the papyri were completely destroyed in the Chicago fire. I had no idea they had been discovered and translated by proper Egyptologists. I understand the "fragments" were published long ago in the Ensign, and that there have been some few other Ensign articles dealing with the Book of Abraham controversy, but I guess I never got around to noticing those articles, probably either because I was too young or because I was overwhelmed with kids and multiple callings and housework and gardening and canning and teaching children to read and studying my scriptures and other various and sundry work that a woman must do. In other words, I was lazy and content to be an uninformed loser.

But no matter why I was uninformed, the fact is that I was an uninformed fully active Mormon. The discovery of the papyri was never mentioned in Sunday School classes. I didn't have a Consiglieri as a Gospel Doctrine teacher. I think mine was more Jeff K. ;-)

After learning of the discovery of the papyri and finding that they were nothing more than common Egyptian funerary documents, I went to talk to my Bishop. He had no idea that the papyri had been discovered! Not a clue. He also thought they had been destroyed in the Chicago fire. When I told him that the general consensus of Egyptologists was that the Book of Abraham couldn't possibly be a translation of the papyri, he told me to stop reading anti-Mormon literature. I let him know I'd also been reading about the Book of Abraham from sites friendly to the church--that I wanted to be aware of all sides of the issue. I handed him some information I'd printed off the SHIELDS site, I believe it was authored by Tvedtnes, and my Bishop refused to even look at it, laying it face down on the coffee table.

My former Bishop and I aren't the only two folks ignorant of the history of the papyri. The LDS author of this blog article didn't know, until 2001, that the papyri had been discovered, and he was a returned missionary. It seems he was disseminating the same faulty information I was given--that the papyri had been destroyed in the Chicago fire--to investigators. From my anecdotal evidence, I'm not sure one can conclusively say that the Mormon church hides its history, but it certainly isn't easily forthcoming with it.

While in Chicago, I'll be visiting the Oriental Institute, the stomping grounds of Robert Ritner. I'm sure the exhibits there will be extremely interesting. I'm also looking for some really good pizza, so if anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them. :)

At Navy Pier, I'm going to write my name on the back of a leaf and watch it float away. I'll do my best to scribble it in Reformed Egyptian, in honor of my Mormon heritage and in tribute to the Book of Abraham papyri, which the church probably wishes really were burned in the Chicago fire.

KA

The Palmer House has a long, varied, and famous history, KA. I hope you enjoy your stay. We have eaten their buffet breakfast often. But since we had a place on South Shore Drive, we rarely were guest at the old hotel. For us, it was a wonderful place to spend time.

Try to visit the Museum of Natural History just south and the fantastic aquarium across the street.

I doubt the boats are running that take you out onto Lake Michigan for a great visual view of the city from the water. If they are and you are dressed warmly, take one of the boat tours.

JAK