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Nothing of today's fashionable exmo characterizations of Joseph Smith carried any weight in the days of their origins. This because it was perfectly dismissed by the presence and power of the Holy Ghost. Such presence and power is not realized by Mormons today and the pathetic props used in their absence are absurd.

Such is the sad and tragic dwindling of a culture that held bright promise but chose excellence with the world over a real Zion. Could the LDS ever again command the spiritual realities and administer in righteousness the gifts and powers of the gospel of Jesus Christ everything the scoffing apostates tease would fall away unto utter insignificance. Joseph Smith alone is credited with the Restoration of the gifts and powers of God in our age. Without these there is nothing but fluff to be huffed and puffed away.

Nightlion wrote:Such is the sad and tragic dwindling of a culture that held bright promise but chose excellence with the world over a real Zion. Could the LDS ever again command the spiritual realities and administer in righteousness the gifts and powers of the gospel of Jesus Christ everything the scoffing apostates tease would fall away unto utter insignificance. Joseph Smith alone is credited with the Restoration of the gifts and powers of God in our age. Without these there is nothing but fluff to be huffed and puffed away.

So, your saying that while Joseph Smith was inventing treasures to be sought out in his "looking glass", or claiming golden plates that never existed from a resurrected Moroni who was the very product of his invented plates, of sacred scripture from common funeral texts, of visitations from God, angels and the like, of an angel with "flaming sword" interceding to force upon poor Joseph a lifestyle of having multiple wives....that somehow in all the deceit, fraud and trickery, Joseph Smith was having "real" spiritual experiences?

Sure why not, that seems reasonable.

Tchild wrote:

Nightlion wrote:Such is the sad and tragic dwindling of a culture that held bright promise but chose excellence with the world over a real Zion. Could the LDS ever again command the spiritual realities and administer in righteousness the gifts and powers of the gospel of Jesus Christ everything the scoffing apostates tease would fall away unto utter insignificance. Joseph Smith alone is credited with the Restoration of the gifts and powers of God in our age. Without these there is nothing but fluff to be huffed and puffed away.

So, your saying that while Joseph Smith was inventing treasures to be sought out in his "looking glass", or claiming golden plates that never existed from a resurrected Moroni who was the very product of his invented plates, of sacred scripture from common funeral texts, of visitations from God, angels and the like, of an angel with "flaming sword" interceding to force upon poor Joseph a lifestyle of having multiple wives....that somehow in all the deceit, fraud and trickery, Joseph Smith was having "real" spiritual experiences?

Sure why not, that seems reasonable.

What I am saying is that there has always been the perspective of Joseph Smith viewed from underneath the outhouse. They really don't know what's going on and make their best guess.
But for those who enjoyed the light of day and basked in the radiance of a man of God it was easy to ignore the ignited flatulence which exploded from time to time.

Is it not remarkable that nobody suggested Joseph was taking 12 and 14 year old girls until after the Warren Jeffs business made that more credible? Could not resist to fudge that down a little. Sorry no pun intended. LOOK OUT! [Hendrix riff]

And since the LDS have no gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost to speak of today they have no means to overawe the skeptics and keep their children close. Joseph was sold out long ago for Satan's lying wonders.

I find it remarkably telling that only recently exmos and their cohorts have sallied forth to test the Church. The after sheen of the power residual of the restoration has endured unattended for an amazingly long time.

Go ahead and smite down the puffed up. They deserve it and more. And surely the Lord God is bringing more and more upon them and upon the world that denies him.

Nightlion wrote:And since the LDS have no gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost to speak of today they have no means to overawe the skeptics and keep their children close. Joseph was sold out long ago for Satan's lying wonders.

I find it remarkably telling that only recently exmos and their cohorts have sallied forth to test the Church. The after sheen of the power residual of the restoration has endured unattended for an amazingly long time.

" only recently have exmos..."
Astonishing words, have perhaps the fingers wandered away from the line of thought to type mutations?
But if intended, when was this time when Joseph's closeness to the Holy Spirit closed the mouths of exmo critics? Kirkland? Missouri? Navoo? Perhaps you should read Bennetts book on the saints in Navoo. He was a much closer associate to Smith than most and able produce criticism which seems a bit much to even me.

Nightlion, you have complained nobody has argued with you. To be frank I find it unclear just what you thik. that makes it unattractive to argue with you. Much of the time you sound like a standard example, though extreme of Protestant stand of teaching known as perfectionism. Some late Wesley spoke this way. Charles Finney ,that fellow around Joseph Smiths time who also saw Jesus in a vision commissioning him, would be another. Perhaps you would be less disappinted following those people instead of complaining about how all Josephs followers got it wrong..

huckelberry wrote:

Nightlion wrote:And since the LDS have no gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost to speak of today they have no means to overawe the skeptics and keep their children close. Joseph was sold out long ago for Satan's lying wonders.

I find it remarkably telling that only recently exmos and their cohorts have sallied forth to test the Church. The after sheen of the power residual of the restoration has endured unattended for an amazingly long time.

" only recently have exmos..."
Astonishing words, have perhaps the fingers wandered away from the line of thought to type mutations?
But if intended, when was this time when Joseph's closeness to the Holy Spirit closed the mouths of exmo critics? Kirtland? Missouri? Navoo? Perhaps you should read Bennetts book on the saints in Navoo. He was a much closer associate to Smith than most and able produce criticism which seems a bit much to even me.

The point was made that during the time of Joseph Smith all the calumny failed to cling because of the demonstration of the gift and power of God. The second point was that it has taken about, what? from the death of Joseph Smith until the mid-70s of the last century before ugly got all over itself again.

Nightlion, you have complained nobody has argued with you. To be frank I find it unclear just what you thik

ya thik? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! man get off the page. You can't spell. I bet you smell. JMWYM (gosh, ain't there no smilies for the poor widows' son?)

that makes it unattractive to argue with you.

Like what? We're suppose to be a couple of posers?

Much of the time you sound like a standard example, though extreme of Protestant stand of teaching known as perfectionism. Some late Wesley spoke this way. Charles Finney ,that fellow around Joseph Smiths time who also saw Jesus in a vision commissioning him, would be another. Perhaps you would be less disappointed following those people instead of complaining about how all Josephs followers got it wrong..

Protestant perfectionism is quite the oxymoron.
I can complain because Joseph got it precisely right. This is why nobody will argue with me. They do not know what I know and therefore cannot appreciate what the Restoration was and what it must be to remain valid. Do they think its utter devolution up until today is all good?

If you think my demanding that the real gospel must contain precise elements is perfectionism, you ain't see nothin' yet. It remains undiscerned what kicks off after the gospel is done right. Wait until I find two who can see eye to eye with me. I have had a glimpse of this.