I quit the Church!!!

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_Ray A

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Ray A »

Jason Bourne wrote:Everyone has to find their own path and way in life Ray. What works for some does not work for others. Just because something did not work for you does not mean it won't work for someone else.


And if there were more Mormons like you it would be a positive for the Church. If ever I feel a "tug" to Mormonism (a liberal one), it's always because of level-headed Mormons like yourself. When you criticise something or someone, it means something (to me, anyway) because you've developed a reputation for fair-mindedness and good judgement. You must have been a superb bishop.
_Tchild
_Emeritus
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Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Tchild »

mentalgymnast wrote:
EAllusion wrote:What PP is about comes across as really, really immature.


Yea! It's about time someone called this spade a spade.

Regards,
MG


Polygamy Porter represents a stage that one experiences on the path out of Mormonism and as such, his viewpoint is perfect for a discussion board exploring all things Mormon (or ex-mormon).

Yes MG, PP calls a spade a spade and that is why it is uncomfortable for you and others. As for being "immature"? Based on whose criteria of what is the appropriate level of maturity?

If you don't feel like calling out temple names, or discussing masturbation, or whatever, then don't. But by God those who want to do so have every right to express themselves any way they see fit.

That is what leaving Mormonism means; freedom from its confining shackles. It won't always be "mature", but it will be real and real is what was rarely found in Mormonism.
_Paul Osborne

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Dr. Shades wrote:Okay, Paul, now we all know that you've quit the church.

What you haven't told us is why you left the church.

Just what was it that finally convinced you that it wasn't true?


Don’t you think I’ve already provided some good reasons for hanging up on the church? There are many reasons and you know full well it would take hours to explain them. But let me just give you one reason for now.

Consider the hateful teachings uttered by Joseph F. Smith regarding birth control and against members of the church who use birth control to limit the number of children in their families. Those statements made by that man are an abomination! I’d rather listen to the ramblings of Adolf Hitler talk about a master race than listen to Joseph F. Smith’s evil condemnation upon those who used birth control. Surely he must have been a cruel and vicious person. I recall our own Harmony mentioning how he used to beat his wife with a whip of some sort. I can only imagine. Had Joseph F. Smith gotten in my face over birth control I’d just as well rebuke him in the name of Jesus Christ and tell him he has the spirit of the devil. Hence, the leadership of the church is manmade and man run. Does, God look back at a distance and laughs at them for their pretended revelations? He probably does.

Joseph F. Smith was no prophet of God. He was a man who enjoyed position and power because of his lineage and willingness to stick with the political religious system that Mormonism had produced. In my view those things he said were despicable and full of venom. I could never support such a man as being a holy prophet or someone who spoke for God. Hell no! I say, “Away with that impostor and don’t give him any money”!

Look Shades, you know there are many ugly things that were taught and said by General Authorities who are supposed to be enlightened men but were really leeches enjoying the perks and benefits of ruling mindless sheep. I’d like to take away all the money from the GA’s and make them get down in the dirt and dig like Mexican farmers. They won’t get another dollar from me! Starve the GA’s from funds and watch them squirm. I want to see them brought low and get down on their hands and knees and work. Fat cats! Fed by others and provided opulent living arrangements by those who kiss their asses hoping for a shot to join the GA club. It’s all about kissing ass!

All in favor please raise your right hand to have all GA’s released from their positions and sent to the barn to shovel crap and learn what it’s like to be a blue collar working man. Down with the white collar prophets! Do not support them with money as they sit on their asses like priests of King Noah eating the spoils of the working man and being worshipped wherever they go as if they are the holy ones of the earth.

Wow, that’s quite a rant! Them bastards!

Paul O
_Nevo
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Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Nevo »

Ray A wrote:And if there were more Mormons like you it would be a positive for the Church. If ever I feel a "tug" to Mormonism (a liberal one), it's always because of level-headed Mormons like yourself.

God forbid that Mormonism should ever become a touchy-feely, new-agey, i'm okay-you're okay religion. We have one of those in Canada, the United Church, and it's become largely irrelevant. The earliest Christian church was called "the Way" (Acts 9:2)—not "Just One of Many Equally Valid Ways, Whatever Works For You. Hugs."
_Nevo
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Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Nevo »

Paul Osborne wrote:Wow, that’s quite a rant! Them bastards!

I must say you've handled the transition to rabid ex-Mormon with aplomb.
_Ray A

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Ray A »

Nevo wrote:God forbid that Mormonism should ever become a touchy-feely, new-agey, i'm okay-you're okay religion. We have one of those in Canada, the United Church, and it's become largely irrelevant. The earliest Christian church was called "the Way" (Acts 9:2)—not "Just One of Many Equally Valid Ways, Whatever Works For You. Hugs."


Precisely why I said there's no "middle-way". Precisely why I'm not a Mormon.

However, has Catholicism become irrelevant?
_Paul Osborne

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Nevo wrote:
Paul Osborne wrote:Wow, that’s quite a rant! Them bastards!

I must say you've handled the transition to rabid ex-Mormon with aplomb.


Is that a compliment, or what?

I'm just telling it as I see it and am no longer afraid of the repercussions of the money loving General Authority club. You just watch how those men would react if their funds were cut off. Do you think the GA's are going to let blue collar men preside with them as partners in the highest positions of the church? No! They would fight that tooth and nail because they think they are better than their fellow man. They wouldn't hear a revelation from Christ to plant blue collar men as apostles and prophets. They would kick those pricks and fight against the Lord. They are viciously defending their club as they have done for generations.

It's a club to maintain power and order.

Paul O
Last edited by _Paul Osborne on Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Nevo
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:05 pm

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Nevo »

Ray A wrote:However, has Catholicism become irrelevant?

No, I don't think so. As far as I know, Catholicism hasn't disavowed its truth claims.

In Nostra Aetate we read:

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in [other] religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ 'the way, the truth, and the life' (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself."

I think this statement is perfectly appropriate. One can find similar statements from LDS Church leaders. One can be charitable and liberal-minded without rushing headlong into relativism.
_Ray A

Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Ray A »

Nevo wrote:I think this statement is perfectly appropriate. One can find similar statements from LDS Church leaders. One can be charitable and liberal-minded without rushing headlong into relativism.


I'm not seeing much of it. But maybe it's because I frequent Mormon message boards too much.

The other thing is, excommunication in Catholicism is extremely rare, and only in cases where priests (not lay members) openly defy the Pope, for example in some cases of priests advocating "Liberation Theology". Even former priest Paul Collins, who defied Papal authority, was not excommunicated, though he willingly resigned from the priesthood "to save his religious superiors from being 'caught in the middle.' "

Vatican Two was an attempt to bring the Church into line with contemporary thinking:

The spirit of Vatican II is invoked for a great variety of ideas and attitudes. Bishop John Tong Hon of Hong Kong used it with regard merely to an openness to dialogue with others, saying: "We are guided by the spirit of Vatican II: only dialogue and negotiation can solve conflicts." Michael Novak described it instead as a spirit that "sometimes soared far beyond the actual, hard-won documents and decisions of Vatican II. ... It was as though the world (or at least the history of the Church) were now to be divided into only two periods, pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II. Everything 'pre' was then pretty much dismissed, so far as its authority mattered. For the most extreme, to be a Catholic now meant to believe more or less anything one wished to believe, or at least in the sense in which one personally interpreted it. One could be a Catholic 'in spirit'. One could take Catholic to mean the 'culture' in which one was born, rather than to mean a creed making objective and rigorous demands. One could imagine Rome as a distant and irrelevant anachronism, embarrassment, even adversary. Rome as 'them'." This view of the Second Vatican Council was condemned by the Church's hierarchy, and the works of theologians espousing such a view (such as Hans Küng) have often been censured.


Nevertheless that is how it was interpreted by the people, and I was one who lived through this transition, when the Mass was changed from Latin to English (that's how out of touch they were).

Further reading: Hans Kung.

So when is Mormonism going to "get real" and allow more leeway to its members instead of instigating witch hunts for members and scholars who do not accept Book of Mormon historicity?
_Jason Bourne
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Re: I quit the Church!!!

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Ray A wrote:
And if there were more Mormons like you it would be a positive for the Church. If ever I feel a "tug" to Mormonism (a liberal one), it's always because of level-headed Mormons like yourself. When you criticise something or someone, it means something (to me, anyway) because you've developed a reputation for fair-mindedness and good judgement. You must have been a superb bishop.



Thanks Ray. The feeling is mutual.
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