DiscussMormonism.com

asbestosman wrote:

Polygamy-Porter wrote:You just don't get it.

Where did I say the church wanted you to make more money?

It's implicit. See below.

Being a software engineer, you make probably 100 times more money than the average member in Peru, probably more like 150 times.

As a doctor, I would probably make twice as much as I currently do. Therefore the church would value my membership as a doctor twice as much as it currently does. But it isn't encouraging me to go to medical school. Hmm.

Really, the church no longer urges it's members to get as much education as possible? That's a fairly recent change.

asb wrote:As a doctor, I would probably make twice as much as I currently do. Therefore the church would value my membership as a doctor twice as much as it currently does. But it isn't encouraging me to go to medical school. Hmm

Hey Asb, long time since we've talked.

It doesn't make much sense to encourage people to make more than they are capable of making in a sustainable way. Why don't they encourage the people in Peru to be billionaires? It makes more sense to encourage success generally and then fleece them for what they can get. And by the way, they DO value doctors, lawyers, and businessmen more than you. Value gets expressed in terms of leadership positions and social gatherings.

DarkHelmet wrote:Really, the church no longer urges it's members to get as much education as possible? That's a fairly recent change.

Yes, that's still one of the things the young men repeat every Sunday. However, I don't think most professors make as much with a PhD as lot of other people do out in the world.

Furthermore, the church could make a lot more money if it encouraged women to work. It does not. It encourages them to get an education, but does not encourage mothers to work.

Gadianton wrote:And by the way, they DO value doctors, lawyers, and businessmen more than you. Value gets expressed in terms of leadership positions and social gatherings.

Yet there are plenty of bishops who make about the same I do. In fact I make more than some lawyers I know. Most bishops I know are about at my level of income--some more and some less. It's leadership, not income, that is valued.

harmony wrote:

Maxrep wrote:
Tithing is rarely mentioned in our stake. In fact, the last time it was brought up was several years ago. The whole point at its mention was to encourage members to pay tithing online to Salt Lake city or to use the new tithing slips by the bishops office that were self addressed to Salt Lake city. This was instituted to reduce the workload on the bishopric so that they could attend to the ward members spiritual needs. The financial end of tithing is not handled by the bishop anymore. He does not even know what we pay. The bishop says its been a relief, and that he likes the new porgram of Testimony Settlement better.

You're kidding, right?

Of course I am. :)

Within the LDS community there is a sort of "social accountability" with regards to your tithing status. There are ward temple events, invitations to attend the temple from other couples in the ward you may know, weddings, taking your newly called missionary through the temple for endowments, etc. The bishopric and ward secretary have acess to tithe records, and these callings change with some frequency. Over a few years there may be quite a few individuals that may find out through the grapevine what your tithe status is.

If the church adopted a more private system of tithing, where the member decided what an increase meant, and could pay anonymously to church headquarters and make their tithe status declaration without 3rd party involvement, then overall tithe money paid to the church would drop. It would drop substantially. I would go so far as to say that removing public aknowledgement of tithes would send the church well on its way to financial ruin. I believe they know this.

Maxrep wrote:If the church adopted a more private system of tithing, where the member decided what an increase meant, and could pay anonymously to church headquarters and make their tithe status declaration without 3rd party involvement, then overall tithe money paid to the church would drop. It would drop substantially. I would go so far as to say that removing public aknowledgement of tithes would send the church well on its way to financial ruin. I believe they know this.

In other words, you think most "active" members are fakers. I find that hard to believe. Tithing is hard to swallow for a church you don't believe in. May as well go to some other cheaper church if you're a faker.

P. Porter,

I'm sure you have heard the statement before;

"In North America, the church is growing fastest among the latino population. By 20XX, most U.S. members will be hispanic."

What do you think this means from a financial point of view as far as the church is concerned?

asbestosman wrote:

Maxrep wrote:If the church adopted a more private system of tithing, where the member decided what an increase meant, and could pay anonymously to church headquarters and make their tithe status declaration without 3rd party involvement, then overall tithe money paid to the church would drop. It would drop substantially. I would go so far as to say that removing public aknowledgement of tithes would send the church well on its way to financial ruin. I believe they know this.

In other words, you think most "active" members are fakers. I find that hard to believe. Tithing is hard to swallow for a church you don't believe in. May as well go to some other cheaper church if you're a faker.

Rather than using, "other words", lets just stick to the words I used. Simply put, social pressure can cause people to do things they may not feel comfortable doing. Can we agree there?

asbestosman wrote: but does not encourage mothers to work.

And here is the million dollar question, Asbestosman;

"What does the church encourage these mothers to do instead of a career?"

I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "Have bore mabies" or future tithe payers.

Maxrep wrote:Simply put, social pressure can cause people to do things they may not feel comfortable doing.

Thank you for your other words.

Can we agree there?

Sure, but I don't think it applies enough here to have the church lose that much tithing. There is an awful lot of social pressure to NOT be a Mormon, at least outside of Utah. Furthermore, I have a hard time buying that there's enough of it to make people cough up 10%.

Maxrep wrote:"What does the church encourage these mothers to do instead of a career?"

I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "Have bore mabies" or future tithe payers.

Except that the church has also come out saying that the number of children to have is between the couple and the Lord. Mothers could have children AND work. That's what most of my neighbors do.

Polygamy-Porter wrote:
The point is your membership is much more valuable to them than a member who is a dirt farmer in Peru.

Well, sort of. The Utah/Idaho/Calif. regions supply the majority of missionaries that move throughout the world preaching the gospel. The missionary work would suffer if developed income producing areas were not able to provide this continual "army of God". The church also relies heavily upon the income it receives from the Utah/Idaho/Calif. regions so that it can continue to build temples and use the these same financial resources to move the other physical facilities and operations of the church throughout the world. At least you can rest assured that the money is not going to pay lay leaders in church units.

That's a wonderful thing, isn't it?

Where I would disagree with you is in your assumption that a member in Peru has less value in the eyes of God than the member in Bountiful, Utah. One hopes that the G.A.'s also feel the same way. That becomes a matter of personal bias/prejudice. You have yours. I, OTOH, believe that the G.A.'s truly love the Peruvian saints and wish/pray for their eternal salvation/exaltation as much as those of us enjoying greater prosperity/resources.

So who's right?

Only God knows for sure. He will be the sure judge.

Regards,
MG