DiscussMormonism.com

mentalgymnast wrote:Life's too short. Choose ye this day whom you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord... not to say you're not and all...but just sayin.

I, for one, don't have 180 years to pussyfoot around.

Regards,
MG

...and the Lord's name is.... Jesus Smith

The Mormon Jesus®

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PXaJxzuDE

Uncle Dale wrote:

Polygamy-Porter wrote:...
just have Oakes make the statement.

Easier than dusting off the seer-stone and finding the location of Catholic-buried
Zarahemla that way, I suppose.

No need to arose the ire of the Pope, or they might risk a Catholic-buried Provo.

UD

Last I heard, the seer-stone was back at the Kolob calibration center..

why me wrote:Joseph Smith... he was not... his early... he did... he claimed... he was...
he wasn't... he was... believed that Joseph... he were... he would...
Alone, he would... Joseph himself... his claims, he was destined...
he got stronger... He grew... to choose him.

Makes me vomit -- elevating that murderous whoremonger to such a
level of worship that you cannot get past ten words, without having to
offer "Praise to the Man."

How about if we all just change our names to his, and go around wearing
masks of his face, and cut down our vocabulary to just the two words of
that infamous name?

No -- that would not be enough for Mormons. We need to erect a statue
the size of the planet Jupiter and place it in orbit around the sun, so that
every day, every person in the world must see his ugly face.


"The stink of his droppings rises up to offend even cockroaches."

Oh well -- I can walk away from it all.
You can't.
Too bad about that, eh?

UD

Hey MG... :-)

What am I missing?

It seems incredulous to me that the God of the entire universe (you know, the one who made it), couldn't figure out a way to rstore his truth regardless of a particular person.

I find it craziness to think that the CREATOR could have only used Joseph Smith to bring to pass the one and only true gospel on the earth.

OTOH, if there was indeed a one and only true restoration that needed to take place, think what this church would look like today if the prophet was actually a honorable, honest man or woman filled with integrity and decency, who actually lived by the golden rule?

Think what the one and only church would look like if the Book of Mormon myth actually resembled some sort of reality? For example, what if the Book of Mormon had filled within its pages information that actually enlightened our understanding of the human race rather than conflicted with it at every turn. What if it taught us new knowledge and information, and little by little anthropologists and historians confirmed its message and story as true and accurate, rather than apologists having to twist and turn its words and meaning into all sorts of gibberish in order to "expand the paradigm"?

What if the prophet chosen by God to restore the one and only full truth of God upon the earth was a remarkable, enlightened, honest, decent, respectable, truly amazing man who the world could look up to? What might the church look like then?

My point is, MG, the past is the past and if anything changed nothing would be as it is... so what? I don't see how this is supportive of the notion that the LDS church is directed by God or of Divine origin any more than anything turning out as it has throughout history.

~td~

truth dancer wrote:...
What if the prophet chosen by God to restore the one and only
full truth of God upon the earth was a remarkable, enlightened,
honest, decent, respectable, truly amazing man who the world
could look up to? What might the church look like then?
...

Better yet, a woman.

What might have Israel looked like, if Deborah's daughters had inherited
her judgeship -- or Huldah's daughters inherited her prophetic calling?

The world might have been a better place, many centuries back.

UD

Not at all. Joseph Smith played his part in the orchestrated relocation of the church to Utah. There were other variables/conditions/situations/people which also played their part. The important thing in my theoretical construct is that the church exist as it does today with a base of operations which provides optimum opportunity for the church to fulfill its three fold mission. Salt Lake City has proved to be the "right place" as Brother Brigham said.

Happen chance?

All we can really say is that the move to Utah and the conditions which acted as the catalysts in moving the church to the Great Basin have been serendipitously fortunate for the church as it carries out its mandate/mission.

God driven and directed?

Only time will tell. But things seem to be moving forward quite well and the church is doing a marvelous work throughout the world... to the dismay of its critics.

The important thing in this theoretical construct is that the church* exist as it does today with a base of operations which provides optimum opportunity for the church to fulfill its mission.

*fill in the name of whatever church you wish – Scientology, Jehovah’s Witness, Catholic, Moonie, etc…Any believer in any religion could use your exact reasoning to attempt to create the same sort of theological construct you are utilizing here. That means that it is absolutely meaningless.

I do hope you’ll answer my question and let me know which books you’ve read about ancient America. Dale may well be correct, and that suspicion would be correct for the vast majority of believers, but you speak so authoritatively about the validity of the historicity of the Book of Mormon I wondered if you perhaps had actually read something on the subject.

by the way, whether or not the church is doing a “marvelous work” is a matter of opinion. Is it a marvelous work to persuade people to believe in a falsehood, particularly when that belief usually entails a significant donation of time and money? Is it a marvelous work to repeatedly present obstacles in the face of social progress – civil rights, women’s rights, and now gay’s rights to marry? Is it a marvelous work to teach young people that they’re sinners when they masturbate? Is it a marvelous work to teach people that sexual indiscretion is the near equivalent of murder? Personally, I wouldn’t call any of those things “marvelous”, but, as I said, it’s a matter of opinion.

uncle dale posted:






no f'n way! where is this place?

karl61 wrote:uncle dale posted:






no f'n way! where is this place?

Where else but the heart of mormondumb, SLC

http://www.gilgalgarden.org/

Uncle Dale wrote:

why me wrote:Joseph Smith... he was not... his early... he did... he claimed... he was...
he wasn't... he was... believed that Joseph... he were... he would...
Alone, he would... Joseph himself... his claims, he was destined...
he got stronger... He grew... to choose him.

Makes me vomit -- elevating that murderous whoremonger to such a
level of worship that you cannot get past ten words, without having to
offer "Praise to the Man."

How about if we all just change our names to his, and go around wearing
masks of his face, and cut down our vocabulary to just the two words of
that infamous name?

No -- that would not be enough for Mormons. We need to erect a statue
the size of the planet Jupiter and place it in orbit around the sun, so that
every day, every person in the world must see his ugly face.

Oh well -- I can walk away from it all.
You can't.
Too bad about that, eh?

UD

I have an unbiased understanding of him as a human being. If we take your assumption that he was a fraudster, I can say that he saw his fraud until the end. He actually gave his life for that fraud. And that would take courage. He did not have an easy time of it that is for sure.

If he weren't a fraud, but a prophet, he certainly remained faithful until the end. And that wasn't easy either. Whatever way one looks at it, he was no coward. Plus, lets look at his accomplishments: run for president, builder of cities and communities, a leader, a speaker, an organizer, a preacher, a father, a husband, a wrestler, a son, a loyal brother, a builder of buildings and temples etc. And death at 38. Quite an accomplishment.

Polygamy-Porter wrote:

karl61 wrote:uncle dale posted:






no f'n way! where is this place?

Where else but the heart of mormondumb, SLC

http://www.gilgalgarden.org/

Uncle Dale wrote:
How about if we all just change our names to his, and go around wearing
masks of his face, and cut down our vocabulary to just the two words of
that infamous name?

Oh well -- I can walk away from it all.
You can't.
Too bad about that, eh?

UD

halloween is coming soon. You would make a wonderful Joseph Smirh. I am sure that you can have a mask made for you. :=)