The Missionaries For Dinner

[_John Larsen]

You're a nice guy, John.

If it had been me (assuming my wife would allow missionaries within 100 yards of our house, let alone our dining room), I don't think I'd have been able to resist asking them some of the harder questions (not about Mormonism specifically, but religion generally). I'd be nice about it, but the temptation would be too great. I love messing with people's faith because I consider it not only fun, but a huge favor - tough love, if you will.

Some Schmo,

Asking more challenging questions about religion is exactly where I began when two dressed Mormon young men came ringing my door bell. I invited them in and had them seated in comfortable surroundings. They never got to their “script” with me. They also were unable to address questions and issues of the evolution of religious doctrines even confined to Christianity let alone the emergence of human cultures with their own myths as explanation for what they knew little.

As I addressed more and more difficult questions and issues, I offered then a cup of hot chocolate for which they seemed pleased. That softened the ambient psychology. I also asked them about their homes and how they happened to be at my door. On those issues, they were most forthcoming. They also were open about their planned education and employment interests.

I don’t think they had encountered someone like me previously. My analysis and comments always addressed various religious claims, and I never took an acrimonious attitude toward them personally. In fact, I was sympathetic with their plight as they went door to door with their prepared message. We parted after about an hour and a half friendly but with little consensus of perspective regarding the history and evolution of religious doctrines. However, both of them said several times that they had never thought of the issues (questions) which I posed. They exchanged glances of puzzlement as to just what they were supposed to say in the face of my skeptical challenge of various religious doctrines.

While I enjoyed it, I think it was an uncomfortable situation for them. They said that most of the time people just closed the door in their faces with some dismissive comment. That may have been easier to take than to be invited in, to be given hot chocolate (it was a cold evening), and to be engaged in dialogue. Clearly, it was not their common experience from those who even answered the call of the door bell.

JAK

You are right, sir. Missionaries are taught that a evil, sinful world will reject them. They are rejected and thereby conclude that that the world is evil and sinful. To break down the programmed thinking, those outside of the Church should stop acting like the leadership wants them to.

[_Dr. Shades]

Maybe because they don't have enough money to cook their own damn dinners? In our mission in Texas, they were supposed to live on $140 a month.

Hmm. In that case, it looks like I'll have to retract my statement. Thanks for the input.

I suspect you served before the drastic cuts in missionary living allowances. The missionaries in our ward in Texas lived in absolute squalor. And every day I drive by a missionary apartment on 9th east that I wouldn't want anyone to have to live in.

Although missionary apartments in Japan didn't have A) centralized heating, B) centralized air conditioning, C) a centralized water heater, or D) insulation in the walls, a great many other Japanese people's homes were the same exact way. So, in my case, you couldn't really call it squalor. So I suppose I would have mercy on missionaries living in "absolute squalor," too.

My son's best friend is in Paraguay, living as I did in deplorable conditions. Of course I hope someone is taking care of him because the church sure isn't.

There's really no excuse for the church to not provide reasonable accommodations for its missionaries, especially considering how cheap housing must be in Central and South America.

The missions of her boys was hard emotionally, to lose contact for 2 whole years. I presume that is the case for other mothers. The mothers worry about their boys and want people to take care of them.

My mother never worried about me, so I guess that experience is outside my realm of knowledge.

[_JAK]

Post Reference

John Larsen wrote:
Missionaries are taught that a evil, sinful world will reject them. They are rejected and thereby conclude that that the world is evil and sinful. To break down the programmed thinking, those outside of the Church should stop acting like the leadership wants them to.

Depending on what neighborhood Mormons visit, they are likely to encounter people of other Christian denominations. “Those outside of the…” Mormon doctrine are no more able to “stop acting” as they do than the Mormon pundits are likely to stop acting as they do. It’s a very competitive world in religious dogma. Southern Baptists or Roman Catholics (or most any other demonization we might name) have their loyal members who believe strongly that their religious dogma is right.

A much more powerful weapon against any religious doctrine/dogma is apathy. The analytical agnostic/atheist in many cases is quite apathetic to any religious spiel set forward with emotional zeal.

JAK

[_msnobody]

It was right after the missionaries told me they could no longer teach me and it was a waste of their time.

This makes no sense. None. Zip. Nada. Whoever told them that (if indeed someone did and they didn't make it up) was flat out wrong.

The missionaries taught my DIL for almost 4 years and it was never a waste of time. The missionaries have visited my mother every Friday morning for almost 5 years and it is NEVER a waste of time. She is their assignment! They help us take care of her and her place so she can still live at home (she's 78). They'd still take care of her even if she wasn't on their assignment list. She's a great cook, feeds them like the hungry boys they are, and then gives them the leftovers. She loves them and they love her.

Waste of time, indeed! Balderdash!

I suspect it came from the AP who acted as a total jerk.

[_msnobody]

I'm probably going to piss some people off, so apologies in advance, but I simply can't take it anymore:

My wife was in the RS presidency, and when there were gaping holes in the missionary dinner calendar, she would just have them eat with us.

Why not just let them cook their own damn dinners on those nights, like I did??

We hear from my son's friends who are on missions all over the place, and I hope that someone is taking care of them.

You "hope that someone is taking care of them???" What the Hell? Why can't they just take care of their own damn selves, like I did??

When I see them, I remember myself and my mother.

How does your mother fit into this?

The poor kids need to catch a break and hopefully someone will take care of Mrs. Larsen's boy.

Forgive me for my abrasiveness, kind sir, but NOBODY took care of Mrs. Shades' boy. I took care of my own damn self and was happy to do it. The idea that I needed to be taken care of by someone other than myself simply never occurred to me.

It seems like every time, some stranger would come up and say: "Elder, are you supposed to be in the Woolworths?"

Heh. "Every member a mission president."

Please don't keep us in suspense, though. How would you respond to such inquiries?

Shade, I don't think you were the average missionary.

[_Sethbag]

Not really. We had by far more weeks without a single DA than we had weeks with one, and, like Shades describes, we took care of ourselves. I have always assumed it was that way for everyone on their mission. I guess not. Interesting.

I will grant, I served in a "civilized" country, no dirt floors or anything like that, so perhaps it's a 1st World vs. 3rd World mission thing.

[_Dr. Shades]

Shade, I don't think you were the average missionary.

Perhaps not.

I will grant, I served in a "civilized" country, no dirt floors or anything like that, so perhaps it's a 1st World vs. 3rd World mission thing.

That's a very, very compelling point, since the country in which I served was "civilized" as well.

[_Tchild]

I think I will invite them back next month. I feel like I am repaying some of my Karmic debt for all of those who feed me on my mission. I am also going to try to drop by to leave them a Costco load of toilet paper, paper towels and the like. They said they are surviving on $115 a month each, and I don't see how that is possible. I did ask them if they had a vacuum, and they said yes (none of my missionary apartments ever had one.)

Classic "bitter" ex-believer behavior there John. It appears you can "leave the church, but cannot leave it alone", by showing humanness and kindness to the young missionaries. you are playing right into the stereotypes of the believers with your obsession to Mormonism and making sure the missionaries are well fed and offered some human support.

From my experience with the missionaries who came by to teach our 8 year. old the discussions (hey, its a free country in my home). If the missionaries had any consistency in an area and didn't arrive unannounced, late, or with a different companion (or with multiple different companions) every time they visited, they might actually build rapport and show themselves as mature ambassadors of the faith.

Of course, It is not my place to teach the church basic sales strategies to help them improve their baptisms. If I ran my business like the church runs its missionary program, I would have been out of business a long time ago.

[_MCB]

JAK, thank you for your reflective post. I now have the skills to deal with their games in a charitable manner, being neither aggressive nor victimized. ;))

[_JAK]

JAK, thank you for your reflective post. I now have the skills to deal with their games in a charitable manner, being neither aggressive nor victimized. ;))

You’re welcome.

JAK