Mormonism -> Atheism, Why?

[_thews]

In reality, no one "knows" either way, as it just a conviction to that belief.

I would not say I "know" that God doesn't exist (or does exist). See my sig line. I did say as a TBM "I know" such and such, but I've even heard some Church members questioning that term, and a few arguing it shouldn't be used, but "I believe" doesn't cut it with many. It sounds "wimpy". One thing I can confidently say I do know is that God isn't a man who lives near Kolob, and three Nephites is a myth.

Looking at how the universe (and world) works, and in particular considering the problem of evil and the chance nature of much of it, I'm not inclined to think God cares much what happens. I have a slight hearing problem (mainly right ear), and when I joined the Church I had blessings, and even a few years after - no result. And I've seen the same thing happen with people with similar disabilities. When God makes a lost arm or leg grow back, or a real miracle can be observed, I might change my mind about an intervening God who cares. In the meantime I'm happy reading The Jefferson Bible.

When it comes to theodicy, I think it’s best to broaden the perspective when attempting to figure out God’s motive for evil. I have my own reasoning for its purpose, and it’s all a matter of perspective. Consider the following:
A) If the purpose of life is to teach the soul, then in order to have knowledge of good and evil, evil has to exist.
Conclusion #1 – In the earth domain, evil exists.

B) In order for humans to not blindly follow what God (assuming God exists) to them to do, they cannot know for certain that God exists. Conversely, they also cannot know he does not exist. The paradox complete, there’s evidence to choose for or against the existence of God, but it’s not conclusive either way.
Conclusion #2 – Regardless of which choice one makes regarding God’s existence, they both have knowledge of what it’s like to live without God, and to live with evil.

C) Most philosophical theories attempt to define the human experience based on a universal assumption that it’s uniform among all people. Life isn’t uniform and everyone’s life experience is different based on a multitude of factors.
Conclusion #3 – Life is not fair.

When you say you have a hearing disability, I assume you can still hear. When you say you’d like to see an arm grow back for those that have lost them, what you fail to acknowledge is there’s people that were born without arms or legs and have no knowledge of what it’s like to have them in the first place. In a nutshell, whatever gifts one has, it’s comparison is what others have.

If a “loving” God wouldn’t allow a tsunami to destroy a village already ravished with poverty, and losing one’s limb would anger the person losing it, what’s really being compared is how much evil one is exposed to in this life. Life isn’t fair, and we can all find someone that we’d never in a million years chose to change places with their circumstance.

My point is that evil exists in this domain, which is why I believe it doesn’t exist in the next domain. I don’t believe Satan is locked up in his lava cave poking people with sticks all day… that seems an unfair punishment for choosing incorrectly. It’s just my opinion, but I don’t believe the purpose of life is to choose correctly/incorrectly, but rather to experience life and learn truth, and part of that is evil. The other part is non evil (joy, love, etc.), and just how much one gets of each is really not for us to know, and it’s not uniform (fair).

PS – Someone asked me once if I thought God planted the fossils just to mess with our heads. After giving that some thought, I had to conclude the answer was yes. What a perfect paradox, leading to two conclusion that both require a leap of faith.

[_thews]

This is why I have little patience to interact with say EV critics of the LDS Church (like Thews for example). I just don't thing they examine their own faith system with the same critical methods they do the LDS Church.

thews couldn't even cut it with me and I'm probably the nicest person on this entire board if not the entire world.

;-)

Wow... you're the nicest person in the entire world... my what a bright addition to humanity you are. I'm not sure what you mean by "cut it" with you. If what you want is a blind acceptance that what you believe is universal, then we all have right to your opinion don't we?

You and Jason can gang up like most Mormons do when it "attack" mode, as it's what you've been trained to do/think. The truth is the truth and I understand what the truth seems like an "attack" to you both.

[Guest]

Don't you think it a bit morally obtuse and egotistical to think that someone suffering tremendously with Tay-Sachs disease is going through it so a person like you can have abstract knowledge of seemingly pointless torment? Others' suffering is for your own personal morality play? Especially given that such knowledge could be given to you by a powerful being without it having to be real or as extensive?

[_thews]

For me, the methods and critical thinking that have led me to conclude the LDS Church is not what believed it to be can be used to dismantle most other religions.

This is why I have little patience to interact with say EV critics of the LDS Church (like Thews for example). I just don't thing they examine their own faith system with the same critical methods they do the LDS Church.

So on one hand you consider yourself a "critical thinker" yet you acknowledge Mormonism is false on many counts ...? and you have little "patience" for objective opinions ...interesting.

So I continue to practice my faith as a Latter-day Saint fora variety of reasons. Mostly it still seems to work best for me in the life I live. There are many reasons that I won't list here.

So you know the LDS church is false, yet you still "practice" it? What does that mean? Which God do you pray to... the Mormon God? Your arguments in attempting to pull Mormonism into the definition of "Christianity" is based on what you want it to be... not what it is. The reason you reject opinions from critical thought is that you aren't a critical thinker. You are basically admitting you believe something you know is false and do with it what you can. It's called "cognitive dissonace" to most, but you are aware of it. If you can't stand the heat Jason, get out of the kitchen. You've chosen the false prophet (my opinion), and gathering a bunch of :highfivers: to agree with/back you up isn't going to make your argument valid.

[_MCB]

There's not much to go on, because there are few "apostate studies". However, this might help a teeny bit, even if it's 8 years old:

Exmormon Survey.

Thanks for that link. I think the study is well done, except for sampling questions. Would be nice if it could be redone, perhaps with a Moridor sample, maybe through newspapers.

This is why I have little patience to interact with say EV critics of the LDS Church (like Thews for example). I just don't think they examine their own faith system with the same critical methods they do the LDS Church.

This is a critical flaw to their exit strategy. Sort of like an abused wife getting a divorce and going on to another abuser, without asking what in herself seems to invite such situations. She needs some years of celibacy in straightening out her own problems before having another relationship.

[_MCB]

...My experience was so bad because Brighamites tend to assume I have ancestors who were members of a "vigilante mob". I was always taught that who your ancestors were doesn't matter, it only matters that you live your life with integrity today. I was flabbergasted when I found out what was going on...

Can you explain further? I'm wondering what the story is here. Thanks!

Sorry, I can't. Yes, it is quite a story. Maybe you can read it sometime. Right now, I gotta send in my newest draft to the "committee" . ;)

[_harmony]

Wow... you're the nicest person in the entire world... my what a bright addition to humanity you are. I'm not sure what you mean by "cut it" with you. If what you want is a blind acceptance that what you believe is universal, then we all have right to your opinion don't we?

You know what sarcasm is, right?

You and Jason can gang up like most Mormons do when it "attack" mode, as it's what you've been trained to do/think. The truth is the truth and I understand what the truth seems like an "attack" to you both.

KNOW thy audience: Jersey isn't LDS.

[_harmony]

So you know the LDS church is false, yet you still "practice" it? What does that mean? Which God do you pray to... the Mormon God? Your arguments in attempting to pull Mormonism into the definition of "Christianity" is based on what you want it to be... not what it is. The reason you reject opinions from critical thought is that you aren't a critical thinker. You are basically admitting you believe something you know is false and do with it what you can. It's called "cognitive dissonace" to most, but you are aware of it. If you can't stand the heat Jason, get out of the kitchen. You've chosen the false prophet (my opinion), and gathering a bunch of :highfivers: to agree with/back you up isn't going to make your argument valid.

Again, KNOW thy audience. Jason does what Jason does for reasons Jason has explained here on prior threads. Read them. You are basically behaving like an ass.

Learn how to communicate with the people here before you fire your shotgun.

[_Inconceivable]

Kinda covered already, but I wanted to bring this home:

How would I put this?

There is only one church upon the face of the earth that will OWN the Old Testament. Their modern revelation reaffirms that the Old Testament is not simply a figurative account but actual.

No other church has ever made this revelatory claim.

In other words, other religeons can admit they are not entirely sure of what acually occurred thousands of years ago. They have an out. Mormonism takes it all the way back.

[_Inconceivable]

I discovered a few years ago that the same special tools I was taught to expertly use to dismantle the faiths of those outside the church fit the same nuts and bolts holding up my own.

It's no wonder ex-mormons have little inclination to join another religeon after they have now dismantled the only one they thought viable.

I've brought this up before, but Mormons that compare and contrast their religeon with others remind me of Daffy Duck sawing off the limb he's sitting on.