Trevor wrote:All I know is that the instances of such identification I do know of occurred in North America and dealt with North American sites and artifacts. Did Joseph Smith indicate that he was speaking by inspiration when he connected the book with Mesoamerica, or was he merely opining?
Sethbag wrote:Yes, I've always interpreted Joseph Smith's comments to mean "they were down there too", not "they were down there".
beastie wrote:Apparently there are times he was willing to assert he was speaking by revelation, going by the accounts of the Zelph bones. If I recall correctly, he didn't make the Mesoamerican connection often, and it was usually in response to seeing something about a discovered ruin. And he certainly did not make the connection in a LGT way, but rather in the hemispheric model.
20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. A voice of the Lord in the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca county, declaring the three witnesses to bear record of the book! The voice of Michael on the banks of the Susquehanna, detecting the devil when he appeared as an angel of light! The voice of Peter, James, and John in the wilderness between Harmony, Susquehanna county, and Colesville, Broome county, on the Susquehanna river, declaring themselves as possessing the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times!
10. Now seeing Mycenae was but a small city, or if any other of that age seem but of light regard, let not any man for that cause, on so weak an argument, think that fleet to have been less than the poets have said and fame reported it to be. [2] For if the city of Lacedaemon were now desolate and nothing of it left but the temples and floors of the buildings, I think it would breed much unbelief in posterity long hence of their power in comparison of the fame. For although of five parts of Peloponnesus it possess two and hath the leading of the rest and also of many confederates without, yet the city being not close built and the temples and other edifices not costly, and because it is but scatteringly inhabited after the ancient manner of Greece, their power would seem inferior to the report. Again, the same things happening to Athens, one would conjecture by the sight of their city that their power were double to what it is.
What a terrible position internet Mormons are placed in defending the teachings of their beloved founder, both those that they agree with and those which put Smith in the same light as crackpot religious leaders.cinepro wrote:Sethbag wrote:Yes, I've always interpreted Joseph Smith's comments to mean "they were down there too", not "they were down there".
From the Wentworth Letter, it is fairly clear that Joseph Smith thought the continent was vacant when the Jaredites showed up. So obviously any pre-columbian ruins would be from Book of Mormon peoples, regardless of their location in the hemisphere.
The brethren procured a shovel and a hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot, discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs the stone point of a Lamanitish arrow, which evidently produced his death. Elder Burr Riggs retained the arrow. The contemplation of the scenery around us produced peculiar sensations in our bosoms; an subsequently the visions of the past opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large, thickset man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph. He was a warrior and a chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. The curse was taken from Zelph, or at least in part-one of his thigh bones was broken by a stone flung from a sling, while in battle, years before his death. He was killed in battle by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.
In other words, appearances can be deceiving. Because one civilization leaves a lot of stone monuments, while another leaves mounds, does not mean that the latter was insignificant, or incapable of civilization of sufficient complexity to have produced or inspired the Book of Mormon. Power, technology, and magnitude can sometimes be difficult to gauge accurately based on archaeological remains. And, as many a Mormon scholar/apologist (among those who support a Mesoamerican setting) will tell you, just because something has not been found, does not mean that it will not be found. The same may be said of the native civilizations of North America.