So when do you predict war with Iran?

[_bcspace]

Start threatening the supply of Oil to China and you will find Los Angeles disappearing in a nuclear cloud.

Don't think so. We and China are financially locked. They will not risk it because we have to pay back a lot of the debt we create to them. And we won't risk not being able to go into more debt by cutting off a huge debt buyer such as China. The onlty way to hurt each other is indirectly.

The US needs to quit trying to be the 'moral compass' of the world since the US has no moral claim to much of anything these days.

I agree. We need to quit trying and actually become.

Funny we worry about those nations that have something we want and not much about those who don't. Millions more die in repression and starvation in countries that do not have oil wells and the US sits back and does little to nothing.

I generally agree with this sentiment also. But you are wrong about us doing nothing. We have done and continue to do our fair share and no one else does anything at all. Until other nations get on board with fighting socialism and other dicatorship around the world, we should simply stick to protecting our own allies and resources.

[_Inconceivable]

End the thing. Carpet bomb the place from one border to the next. Leave it a smoking wasteland.

..Come home and quit trying to be the worlds policeman.

France got it right for once, their is no intelligent reason for our troops in Iraq and very little in for Afghanistan. Get us out of there.

Huh?

z,

A laxative will help you get your issues out the proper direction.

[_Inconceivable]

Nehor,

This is probably the first time in a year I would agree with your response. What's the matter with you?

I count it down to us not discussing religion at the moment.

you almost had me at hello.

[_zzyzx]

Inconceivable.. you have most likely not had the sad experience of your fellow soldiers dead at your side.

If we are going to war, declare the damn thing and go whole hog. Make the other guy die for his country and don't lose one trooper of your own doing so. We have the Technology to do this, why aren't we using it?

As is written on the plackards at some of our finest military training centers: Kill them all and let God sort them out.

[_Inconceivable]

Inconceivable.. you have most likely not had the sad experience of your fellow soldiers dead at your side.

If we are going to war, declare the damn thing and go whole hog. Make the other guy die for his country and don't lose one trooper of your own doing so. We have the Technology to do this, why aren't we using it?

As is written on the plackards at some of our finest military training centers: Kill them all and let God sort them out.

Lock n load,

I've been in the soup of needless death. It's your solution to the problem that raises my eyebrows.

I would agree that some people need to be taken out of the gene pool because they are evil. That being said, life is way too sacred to destroy an entire demographic because we're too callous, stupid and lazy to sort out the good.

Don't choose to lose your humanity. We're the only species that has the ability to do so.

[_The Nehor]

Funny how quickly Obama adopts the Bush program because it's the right thing to do.....Of course you obviously don't have any clue about LDS doctrine on the matter of war and cherry picking a few verses doesn't not give the complete picture. Among other things, GBH himself in conference put his stamp of approval on the Iraq war and the Church published it making it doctrine that one must now factor into the mix.

I remember that talk. I do not think it says what you think it says.

Pre-emptive war against Iran is totaly justified within and without the gospel as Iran is already at war by proxy and you have a terrorist (doesn't matter which one) supporting nation with a wmd program just as Iraq in a "post 9/11 world".

14 And when they had sworn by all that had been forbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren, behold the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying:
15 Vengeance is mine, and I will repay; and because this people repented not after I had delivered them, behold, they shall be cut off from the face of the earth.
16 And it came to pass that I utterly refused to go up against mine enemies; and I did even as the Lord had commanded me; and I did stand as an idle witness to manifest unto the world the things which I saw and heard, according to the manifestations of the Spirit which had testified of things to come.

The beginning of the end of the Nephites. Sound familiar?

My main concern is that Obama will make the same or worse initial mistakes as Bush in that he won't go for an all out victory. Bush was right in every way and at least he tried to do the right thing. After the defeat of Obamacare, Barak Hussein is simply looking to wag the dog.

You're kidding me....you think Obama wants another war?

I think the proper strategy is to either:

1) Have a nationwide Thunder Run in which we decimate Iran's government, military industrial complex (along with the nuke program), and oil producing facilities (because they have been misused and because it would weaken China). We occupied those sites and search for others until they are all destroyed to our satisfaction. Then we withdraw after a couple of months or so after arming and training the various anti-regime groups and contain the mess from Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran will then become yet another death trap for Islamic radicals and that has played in our favor given our experience in Iraq.

So become completely ruthless....sounds like the right moral choice?

2) Simply spark a civil war and destabilization by arming, training, and inserting anti regime forces, but that is less of a sure thing especially when it comes to getting rid of the nuclear program.

Yeah, our involvement in what amounted to civil wars has gone so well in the past. Korea, Vietnam, all total victories. Then there are all the dissident groups and states we backed up to repel communism. People like Saddam and those wonderful South American dictators.

3) Give Israel what they need to make heavy and continuous strategic strikes and allow them to establish Greater Israel.

You want Israel to become even more of an occupying army? Hey, maybe we can even build Israeli settlements throughout the area. That's worked well in calming conquered arabs.

I would certainly add the real threat of the complete destruction of Mecca, Medina, Al Asqua, and several lesser shrines and holy sites and carry it out one by one if any one of those nations or terrorist organizations so much as raises their heads off the ground from their grovelling in obescience to us.

You want them to grovel? Pride before the fall and all that. You want to wipe out the holy shrines of Islam? Are you trying to provoke World War III? That would create a fifth column all over Europe and North America. Moderate and liberal Muslims would NEVER forget what we did. We'd create extremists. Europe would (rightly) abandon us and over 20% of the world's population would declare a jihad against us and many, many more would despise us and unite against us terrified we might do the same to them. This is how you want to win?

It's time to end the nuanced approach, stop p u s s y footing around, and achieve total victory. Worried about oil prices as a result? We should have become independent of foreign oil decades ago both Republicans and Democrats having plenty of opportunity to achieve this.

Yes, bullying the entire world has worked so well. How much military expansion do you want? Total victory is what? The annihilation and subjugation of a fifth of the world's population? There was an Austrian tramp a few decades back with a similar plan. You may have heard of him.

And I think perhaps we ought to take the liberals at their word and actually do what they have been erroneously claiming the wars been been all about and take some oil for ourselves. lol

Loot and pillage as a method of creating a lasting peace? It's original; I'll give it that.

Perhaps we should take a note from El Guapo's band and "Steal the Women and Rape the Horses."

[_moksha]

The appeal of being at war just to get your political opponents off your back at home is considerable. Keeps us engaged in unwinnable wars whose strategic value is negligible in the first place. Drains the Treasury and costs the lives of many brave young Americans.

Knock off your hatred you politically minded public so we can get the hell out of this mess. The Iranian parents we kill today will be avenged by their young Jihadists of tomorrow. Why go looking for more headache to come?

[_Fiannan]

The appeal of being at war just to get your political opponents off your back at home is considerable. Keeps us engaged in unwinnable wars whose strategic value is negligible in the first place. Drains the Treasury and costs the lives of many brave young Americans.

Knock off your hatred you politically minded public so we can get the hell out of this mess. The Iranian parents we kill today will be avenged by their young Jihadists of tomorrow. Why go looking for more headache to come?

Well said. I wonder how many people here actually spend a lot of time talking with Iranians. I do. Most of these people have left Iran and are quite secular -- in attitudes, dress. etc. However, they all agree with me that if the US attacked Iran all the people ould pull together and fight -- and would never forget. You remember how we reacted to 9-11? Yhat is how they would react to US warplanes taking aim at them.

As I said before, the Serbs still hate us -- they used to be our friends too. But Bill Clinton got some DNA on a young woman's dregg and the rest of the story is history. The Iranians are quite friendly and supportive of Americans -- they just mistrust and hate our government (like many people who consider themselves conservatives in the US today). Bomb these people and watch them boil with hatred to us.

When a nation turns to worship its own power then it will fall -- Rome, the Nephites, and eventually the USA.

[_Fiannan]

Start threatening the supply of Oil to China and you will find Los Angeles disappearing in a nuclear cloud.
The US needs to quit trying to be the 'moral compass' of the world since the US has no moral claim to much of anything these days. Funny we worry about those nations that have something we want and not much about those who don't. Millions more die in repression and starvation in countries that do not have oil wells and the US sits back and does little to nothing.

Google the documentary "The Battle for Oil: China v. the USA. Excellent insights on what drives the UN as well as foreign policy today.

No, I don't think the Chinese will nuke LA, but they could threaten to stop financing our debt and send us in an economic tailspin that will force Mexico to build a fence to keep US citizens from crossing their borders in search of jobs.

[_zzyzx]

As the hairlip Ira Glaze said at Hauns Mill: "Nits make Lice".

The only way to get rid of the radicals is to get rid of them totally. Wipe them out. You either do that or you find yourself fighting the same types over and over and over again in recurring battles as each new generation grows up.

If you aren't going to finish it, don't start it.

As for GBH putting his stamp of approval on the US invading Iraq, the guy had his head up his ass on that one big time. Iraq was no threat to the US in any manner. It was the vanity of the bum Bush that got us there and the cowardly actions of Congress that allowed it. The whole thing is illegal and Bush, Cheney and crew should be extradited and tried for war crimes by the World Court.

If you are going to war, do the greatest damage possible in the shortest period of time. Wipe them out so there will be none left to come back at you later. Once again: Kill them all and let God sort them out.