I don't want to be perfect

[_zeezrom]

I don't want to live on a world that is a sea of glass or diamonds or looks like superman's house. I just want to live in a place like earth where you have noxious weeds and thorns and dead stuff to accentuate the flowers and where you have variety. There might be even more colors and more beauty in heaven, but I'm pretty good with the colors/beauty we have here.

I don't want to be a god where I become perfect. I find that my ability to have a good thought among the bad ones to be a beautiful thing. The mistakes I make accentuate the times I make the right decision.

If someone saw God, their life would be miserable because uncertainty would be taken from them and they would always know they could not live up to what they know. I'm not sure I want to see God.

If someone is going to follow a religion, maybe they should do it for hope in humanity not hope in heaven.

[_Inconceivable]

Zeez,

You bring up some good points. The dirty little secret, however, is that perfection is all about perfect love - charity. Don't sweat the math and science.

Remember that when we do not emulate it, we are "nothing". And if Jesus is the real deal, we must be like this in order to "..see as we are seen"

It's not where you are that matters. It's who you're with (family/friends). That must be why some people actually make the conscious decision to spend their lives living in armpits like Nogales, Mexico.

Develop charity and God probably won't care where you want to live. The consolation is that if there is no God, at least you'll be a really nice person with lots of friends. It's a win win.

[_Some Schmo]

I don't want to be perfect

Yeah, I'm tired of it too.

[_zeezrom]

The dirty little secret, however, is that perfection is all about perfect love - charity. Don't sweat the math and science.

Remember that when we do not emulate it, we are "nothing". And if Jesus is the real deal, we must be like this in order to "..see as we are seen"

I agree with that. I'm not suggesting I just give up, crack open the beers and watch T.V. all day. I'm holding on to some pretty broken pieces of ideas here and there, but amazingly seem to be finding peace with it. Hard to explain. I guess it's like sitting at a desk in a dark room with a little candle on the desk. I can see my hands and how amazing hands are and think about what I can do with them. When my son comes and stands next to me I can look at his face and wonder how amazing he is - knowing he has a future ahead of him and that I can be part of it. One might think, "boy you are in the dark!" But I don't really care - I can see what is important to me.

[_harmony]

Remember that when we do not emulate it, we are "nothing". And if Jesus is the real deal, we must be like this in order to "..see as we are seen"

We're not told to emulate Christ. We're told to be perfect, as Father in Heaven is perfect. So no copying allowed. We have to learn to stand on our own feet and do what we know is right simply because it is right, not because someone told us it was right or to just do it. We have to know the right for ourselves; that is what our testimony should be. We have to do what is right, simply doing it because is right, not in order to gain some reward, whether monetary, spiritual, or emotional.

That is perfection.

It's a process few accomplish and most of those who do aren't Mormon. And none of our leaders have accomplished it yet (that's a given, since if they had accomplished it, the church as an institution would look a lot different than it does.)

[_lostindc]

Biblical speaking, Perfect is a verb just as much as it is a noun. If Perfect is viewed more as an action I believe much good can be brought.

[_zeezrom]

harmony and lostindc, Thanks for those definitions of perfection. It makes sense that way.

[_thews]

I agree with that. I'm not suggesting I just give up, crack open the beers and watch T.V. all day. I'm holding on to some pretty broken pieces of ideas here and there, but amazingly seem to be finding peace with it. Hard to explain. I guess it's like sitting at a desk in a dark room with a little candle on the desk. I can see my hands and how amazing hands are and think about what I can do with them. When my son comes and stands next to me I can look at his face and wonder how amazing he is - knowing he has a future ahead of him and that I can be part of it. One might think, "boy you are in the dark!" But I don't really care - I can see what is important to me.

To me, you’re just attempting to place a finite definition on infinite concepts, and concluding they are in fact infinite. One thing odd about Mormonism, when you get down to the dirty little secrets they aren’t allowed to talk about, the afterlife is very defined. It’s defined in a human perspective, with houses and family and planets and being a God of your own world… you can wrap your brain around that, and the reason you can, is because it is finite. The truth is, when you’re infinite, everything changes. Consider this theory for one moment based on its merits for feasibility:

Absolutes:
1) We exist. When we die, we will continue to exist.
2) God has not conclusively proven (factually) to anyone currently living that he exists.
3) The next dimension will be in an infinite domain, and we are currently in a finite domain.
4) If I were to concede the entire universe was created with a big bang started with one single atom imploding, the answer to where that atom came (from who/what created it) cannot now, nor cannot ever be answered or theorized, because the concept of time is infinite, and since the X axis continues onward in the negative direction if you theorize a timeline, there cannot be a finite starting point.
5) Life is not fair.

Givens:
1) We do not know conclusively whether or not God exists.
2) One can make a very valid argument for the non-existence of God.
3) One can make a very valid argument for the existence of God.
4) We have a finite thought process and this is a fact.
5) We all have a soul.

Assumptions:
1) No religion is perfect. If it were perfect, then it would be conclusive.
2) I exist, so it’s logical to me that God exists.
3) The reason I exist is to learn something (teaching the soul).

Conclusion:
If the reason I existed was to learn something, for whatever reason, my soul would know these lessons from experience. I believe that is the purpose of life, and that’s simply to experience it. If any argument were conclusive regarding the infinite questions, then you would believe them. The fact remains, that there are infinite questions, and they will only be answered when we die, or if God decides to show himself and prove to all of us he exists. In the end, if something is true, then it is a fact.

Logical conclusion:
In the end, I will know what it’s like to live without God in a finite domain. If this little Petri dish we all live in called earth isn’t part of the next dimension, then the next dimension isn’t held to the scientific method's current foundation of fact. If the next dimension isn’t made up of matter as we currently know it, then all of the principals that prove fact from hypothesis in a domain that contains matter is moot.

In the end, we’ll just have to wait and see, but one thing I know for certain, and that’s what I have concluded that I absolutely do not believe in, and that’s Mormon theology. I may not know what's factually true, but I do know what's factually false. The purpose of life is to find truth and figure it out... two cents, but if it's not true, then it means nothing.

[_Ceeboo]

I don't want to be a god where I become perfect.

Hello my friend Zeez,

I have great news for you. You will not become a " god " so you need not sweat it.

You, nor I, nor anyone who has ever walked this planet are " perfect "
( Far fom it )

We are simply mere creations of the ONE creator.

Looks like you do indeed get your wish!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_The Nehor]

I don't want to live on a world that is a sea of glass or diamonds or looks like superman's house. I just want to live in a place like earth where you have noxious weeds and thorns and dead stuff to accentuate the flowers and where you have variety. There might be even more colors and more beauty in heaven, but I'm pretty good with the colors/beauty we have here.

I don't want to be a god where I become perfect. I find that my ability to have a good thought among the bad ones to be a beautiful thing. The mistakes I make accentuate the times I make the right decision.

If someone saw God, their life would be miserable because uncertainty would be taken from them and they would always know they could not live up to what they know. I'm not sure I want to see God.

If someone is going to follow a religion, maybe they should do it for hope in humanity not hope in heaven.

I don't have that much hope in humanity but I think there's a danger in making a hope for heaven your primary religious interest. Judaism for a time had a belief in Sheol, most european pagans believed in a kind of hell, Buddhism had immortality, but none of the afterlives really had religious significance. They were just there.

I would say that if you approach God seeking only perfection and heaven you're really making a huge mistake. Heaven, perfection, and all the rest without God are seen as rewards and bribes or come across as insipid.

To want heaven you have to really want God. If I found out tomorrow that there was no afterlife it wouldn't change my relationship to God. I'd lament the loss of heaven because it cuts short my time to experience Him. Only when you are in this state can you develop a healthy desire for heaven or fear of hell. If you start with believing there is an afterlife and you see God as just someone you have to appease to get a desirable outcome you're not even really being religious. It's more like investing for retirement.