Biases about BYU outside of Utah

[_harmony]

"Outstanding" is obviously an exaggeration. If it was "Outstanding", BYU would be in the Top 50. Stanford is outstanding. UW is outstanding. UCLA is outstanding. BYU is above average. UofU is average. Get used to it. US News has no axe to grind; they report what they see. BYU got an B. Stanford, UW, UCLA etc got an A. Uof U got a C.

Standing for BYU according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Yo ... y#Rankings

For 2010, the U.S. News & World Report ranked BYU as #71 in the country overall.[43] The Princeton Review has ranked BYU the best value for college in 2007,[44] and its library is consistently ranked in the nation's top ten--#1 in 2004 and #4 in 2007.[45] BYU is also ranked #19 in the U.S. News and World Report's "Great Schools, Great Prices" lineup, and #12 in lowest student-incurred debt.[46] Due in part to the school's emphasis on undergraduate research, BYU is ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs, #1 nationally for students who go on to dental school, #6 nationally for students who go on to law school, and #10 nationally for students who go on to medical school.[47] BYU is designated as a research university with high research activity by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching.[48]

In 2009, the university's Marriott School of Management received a #5 ranking by BusinessWeek for its undergraduate programs,[49] and its MBA program was ranked by several sources: #22 ranking by BusinessWeek,[49] #16 by Forbes,[50] and #29 by U.S. News & World Report.[51] Among regional schools the program was ranked #1 by The Wall Street Journal's most recent ranking (2007);[52] and among business schools worldwide the MBA program was ranked #92 for 2009 by Financial Times.[53] For 2009, the university's School of Accountancy, which is housed within the Marriott School, received two #3 rankings for its undergraduate program—one by Public Accounting Report and the other by U.S. News & World Report.[54][55] The same two reporting agencies also ranked the school's MAcc program #3 and #8 in the nation, respectively.[54][56]

And none of those numbers changes the B grade it gets for coming in at #71. It's like any grading situation... some things, you get an A, some things you get a C, some things, you get a D- and consider yourself lucky to have escaped without an F. So for every #3, #8, #16, #29, there's some #110, #147... and the occasional #172.

BYU gets a B this year for #71, and there is nothing anyone, not EE, not Jason, not even DCP can/could say that changes that. BYU doesn't match up to Stanford, UCLA, UW, USC, etc, based on the US News standards. It's just not that good. (neither does my personal alma mater, but I'm not claiming to have graduated from an "outstanding" school. I got my degree and I'm happy with it. I don't need to toot my school's horn as the Best this or #3 that. It ranks above UofU, though. Which makes me laugh.)

Ya gotta be in the Top 50 to get an A. No grade inflation allowed!

[_harmony]

Standing for BYU according to Wikipedia:

Thanks, Jason. Those are impressive statistics. Contrary to the opinion of the original poster, BYU does not possess a weak academic reputation. I also happen to think highly of the UofU (except of course, when it comes to football).

"Weak" is as subjective as "outstanding". I didn't say "weak". I said "above average". Not Top 50. #71.

Do you think as highly of the other 125 schools who were ranked higher than UofU?

[_harmony]

I know some parents from my ward who are kicking themselves for sending their kids to BYU. Now their grandkids are scattered all the heck and gone across the country, because their children all found mates at BYU. Most of my 14 grandkids live within my state, with the exception of the one who is named after me, who lives in New Mexico.

Another perk for us 'in-state' parents. *wink*

[Guest]

Weak" is as subjective as "outstanding". I didn't say "weak". I said "above average". Not Top 50. #71.

Do you think as highly of the other 125 schools who were ranked higher than UofU?

What are there something like two thousand six hundred accredited four-year colleges and universities in the US? A ranking of 71 overall is certainly not weak. That places BYU in the top 2% of all accredited colleges in the US. Now how is that a B grade?

Nor is the #1 ranking for best market value per degree, evidence that BYU is an academically weak institution. Neither is being ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs out of over 2,000 accredited schools in the US evidence that BYU is a weak academic institution.

This is getting ridiculous!

[_Jason Bourne]

I know some parents from my ward who are kicking themselves for sending their kids to BYU. Now their grandkids are scattered all the heck and gone across the country, because their children all found mates at BYU. Most of my 14 grandkids live within my state, with the exception of the one who is named after me, who lives in New Mexico.

Another perk for us 'in-state' parents. *wink*

I certainly agree. You chances of having kids spread around the country is high if they attend the Y.

BYU is a great school especially for the price. Most kids do not need to attend the very best schools to succeed in life. In fact most will do fine at a good state school. Though as noted here, BYU will take many of the brightest that could have gone to the top schools had they wanted and had they been able to afford it and this is all due to parents wanting LDS influence.

[_harmony]

Weak" is as subjective as "outstanding". I didn't say "weak". I said "above average". Not Top 50. #71.

Do you think as highly of the other 125 schools who were ranked higher than UofU?

What are there something like two thousand six hundred accredited four-year colleges and universities in the US? A ranking of 71 overall is certainly not weak. That places BYU in the top 2% of all accredited colleges in the US. Now how is that a B grade?

Nor is the #1 ranking for best market value per degree, evidence that BYU is an academically weak institution. Neither is being ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs out of over 2,000 accredited schools in the US evidence that BYU is a weak academic institution.

This is getting ridiculous!

EE, there is nothing you can say that will change that #71. Face it: the Y is simply not a Top 50 school. It doesn't compare with Stanford, UCLA, USC, UW... they made the Top 50. BYU didn't. US News' criteria was used across the board, and BYU was found to lag behind those other Western state schools.

So sorry. Just accept it: all that tithing... for a #71.

[_Enuma Elish]

EE, there is nothing you can say that will change that #71. Face it: the Y is simply not a Top 50 school. It doesn't compare with Stanford, UCLA, USC, UW... they made the Top 50. BYU didn't. US News' criteria was used across the board, and BYU was found to lag behind those other Western state schools.

So sorry. Just accept it: all that tithing... for a #71.

Who said I didn't accept it?! As a tithe paying member, I'm more than satisfied that my Church's school is ranked overall in the top 2% of accredited institutions. I couldn't careless that their overall ranking is a few slots bellow the likes of Stanford, UCLA, and USC. Given the recent quality of those students they're currently accepting, together with CA's economic crisis, I suspect we'll watch this number rise with UC schools dropping in the coming years.

But it honestly doesn't matter to me. My contributions to this thread have demonstrated some of the reasons why it's wrong to refer to BYU as a weak academic institution. It's not, and as I have shared, for reasons not reflected in the ranking process, I personally believe BYU is a superior school to any of these places for LDS students, including the Ivy league universities. I offer that opinion as an official LDS Chaplain at Harvard.

So as a tithe payer, I'm quite satisfied, thanks.

[_harmony]

I personally believe BYU is a superior school to any of these places for LDS students, including the Ivy league universities. I offer that opinion as an official LDS Chaplain at Harvard.

So as a tithe payer, I'm quite satisfied, thanks.

Sounds like you don't have much faith in the Institute system. What is your biggest fear, for students who attend those less-than-BYU schools?

[_Enuma Elish]

I personally believe BYU is a superior school to any of these places for LDS students, including the Ivy league universities. I offer that opinion as an official LDS Chaplain at Harvard.

So as a tithe payer, I'm quite satisfied, thanks.

Sounds like you don't have much faith in the Institute system. What is your biggest fear, for students who attend those less-than-BYU schools?

I believe our Institute classes taught at both a graduate and undergraduate level at MIT, Harvard, Boston University, Tufts, and Wellesley College are often superior in quality to most BYU religion courses. We have outstanding LDS students out here who are both intellectually and spiritually gifted.

That having been said, the academic rigor, the unique social dynamics, the incredibly motivated and intelligent student body, the spiritual feeling connected with the campus, and yes, the enhanced opportunity for a Latter-day Saint to find a mate who shares a desire to marry and raise an LDS family during what amounts to pivotal years in terms of our unique cultural practices, make BYU in my opinion the best option for a Latter-day Saint student who can qualify to attend.

[_harmony]

Sounds like you don't have much faith in the Institute system. What is your biggest fear, for students who attend those less-than-BYU schools?

I believe our Institute classes taught at both a graduate and undergraduate level at MIT, Harvard, Boston University, Tufts, and Wellesley College are often superior in quality to most BYU religion courses. We have outstanding LDS students out here who are both intellectually and spiritually gifted.

That having been said, the academic rigor, the unique social dynamics, the incredibly motivated and intelligent student body, the spiritual feeling connected with the campus, and yes, the enhanced opportunity for a Latter-day Saint to find a mate who shares a desire to marry and raise an LDS family during what amounts to pivotal years in terms of our unique cultural practices, make BYU in my opinion the best option for a Latter-day Saint student who can qualify to attend.

Well, you're a credit to your employer. Personally, I don't find it to measure up nearly so high.

Do you have examples for your opinion?

What academic rigor, across the board, are you referring to? It seems like academic rigor would have been one of US News' criteria.

I see nothing that would encourage me to send one of my children to Provo in order to take part in the "unique social dynamics". My observations over the years have led to me think that that "unique social dynamic" is often toxic on several levels, including the whole BYU elitist attitude thing of several BYU students I know personally, an attitude they didn't have until they went to Provo.

What makes you think the entire student body is incredibly motivated and intelligent, moreso than any other student body? (You're the one making sweeping generalizations now).

I've been on that campus, EE. Several times. It's no more spiritual than any other campus. Spirituality is a personal individual thing; buildings and cement aren't spiritual.

And I certainly won't denigrate the whole mating ritual. We agree on that.