April 2010 Ensign...do not pray...

[_mms]

...about marrying someone until you've really spent the time necessary to know him/her.

I don't have the mag with me, but I will post the exact quote when I get home tonight. It is an article by a General Authority in the April 2010 Ensign. The GA is talking about choosing who you'll marry. He repeats the story by Elder Bednar about the guy who dumped the girl because she would not take out her second pair of earings. But he also states very clearly that you should not pray about someone until you have really gotten to know them.

I thought this was interesting for at least two reasons:

(1) Is he making the point that answers to prayers are not worthy of credibility when certain kinds of emotions are involved? Why wouldn't the person simply pray and get an answer that he/she should get to know the other person better? Why the advice to NOT PRAY AT ALL until a certain relationship has developed?

and

(2) Why would this same advice not hold true for converting to Mormonism? After all, according to the Church, one should not only immediately pray about converting to Mormonism, but commit to dumping the faith of one's fathers and moving on to an entirely new world with new strict commitments and costs IN THE SECOND MEETING WITH TWO TWENTY-YEAR-OLD KIDS! Maybe one should not pray about this new relationship too soon? Could certain emotions be involved that would make an answer to prayer untrustworthy?

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[_bcspace]

Why would this same advice not hold true for converting to Mormonism?

And indeed why not? According to John 7:17, to know the doctrine, you should start practicing it.

[_zeezrom]

Yes! I noticed this as well and even posted on it here: http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12204

An interesting statement was made in the latest Ensign (April 2010) article, "Confidence Tests" by Elder Lance Wickman discussing the challenge of making a choice in spouse.

...do not base your decisions solely on whether someone has served a full-time mission or holds a particular calling in your ward. These things can be, should be, and usually are indications of devotion, faithfulness, and integrity. But not always. That is the reason you need to get acquainted. Know someone well enough to learn his or her heart and character firsthand and not just his or her "gospel resume."

...Only after applying your own judgment and good sense to the relationship after a sufficient period of time should you pray for a confirmation. Remember, like every other important decision, marriage is your choice. The Lord will expect you to exercise your judgment.

Then D&C 9:7 was quoted.

Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

How often are we told to let our own personal judgment and good sense go when considering the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith? How often are we asked to judge Joseph Smith by his "gospel resume" rather than his character?

[_bcspace]

How often are we told to let our own personal judgment and good sense go when considering the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith?

Never.

How often are we asked to judge Joseph Smith by his "gospel resume" rather than his character?

I think he himself made the same appeal. You guys are confusing the pov. The Church is true and cannot harm you (and never has). It is safe. Marrying someone is not necessarily safe.

[_mms]

Looks like you had the same reaction I did, Zeez. But I reiterate my question, and maybe BC can enlighten, why not pray? Can't prayer be trusted even after a few dates?

[_Inconceivable]

Looks like you had the same reaction I did, Zeez. But I reiterate my question, and maybe BC can enlighten, why not pray? Can't prayer be trusted even after a few dates?

What if the Mormon God is dying to tell you now because He knows you're too stupid to ultimately draw the proper conclusion anyways?

Besides, does one have to remember where their car keys are before asking God for a confirmation?

So how significant is the Mormon God's opinion anyways??

[_Rambo]

How often are we told to let our own personal judgment and good sense go when considering the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith?

Never.

[quote]

bcspace I am going to have to agree and disagree with you on this one. We do tell investigators to read some passages and ponder about them and then pray about the Book of Mormon. The second lesson the Elders ask the investigator if they will be baptized. If personal revelation does work then 2 lessons would be enough for an investigator to know.

Now if we look at choosing a spouse. Some couples I know go on 2 dates and they know they should get married. They have pondered about it and prayed about it.

Both examples are of personal revelation. Your point of view is the church is always true therefore if you pray about it then you will recieve the revelation that it is true. Choosing a spouse is different because he or she may not always be the right person for you. My question is wouldn't God tell you that this person is not right for you?

This again goes back to the whole spirit and emotions. This guidance is good because the GA knows it is hard for members to determine the difference between their emotions and personal revelation. That is why I can't determine if the church is true because I can't tell the difference between the two.

[_bcspace]

Looks like you had the same reaction I did, Zeez. But I reiterate my question, and maybe BC can enlighten, why not pray? Can't prayer be trusted even after a few dates?

Sure, why not? I'll bet no one is saying don't pray at all. I'll bet they are simply encouraging you to not ask for "the one" so soon. Prayers need to be specific and detailed. You don't even know what to pray for unless you get to know the person.

[_bcspace]

bcspace I am going to have to agree and disagree with you on this one. We do tell investigators to read some passages and ponder about them and then pray about the Book of Mormon. The second lesson the Elders ask the investigator if they will be baptized. If personal revelation does work then 2 lessons would be enough for an investigator to know.

Sure. But the Church is always a safe bet. Joining it can't harm you.

[_zeezrom]

How often are we told to let our own personal judgment and good sense go when considering the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith?

Never.

Never? More like EVERY time someone comes up with questions that cannot be answered using only our personal judgment and good sense.

How often are we asked to judge Joseph Smith by his "gospel resume" rather than his character?

I think he himself made the same appeal.

I think I remember reading that so you might be right. But the point is that today you will always hear TBM's say, "I know there are things Joseph Smith did that seem kooky, but consider all the great things he did (i.e. his gospel resume)." Isn't that right?