Devastating conversation.

[_zeezrom]

Dear posters,

I know I ask for a lot of advice on here. I hope it is not too much - I fear I sound like a whiner. Maybe you can endure another story?

I went through a horrible experience today. I talked to my father on the phone and he asked about my testimony because he already knows there is a problem there. Note that I have always looked up to him and respected his advice. I feel like I have struggled to gain his confidence in educational matters growing up as I was the only sibling who struggled in school. Later in life I felt like I had to make up for it my doing well in college and hoped he would be proud. Anyway - just background so you understand our relationship.

He point blank asked if I believe in Joseph Smith and I told him not like I used to. He sounded mad and asked if I would be one of the mobsters in Joseph Smith's day. I responded that violence is not in me so no I would not - nor would I have assisted in his murder. I was stunned at the questions.

He then asked me if I believed in the Celestial kingdom and how families can be together forever. I said it didn't really matter what I believe about heaven because my belief won't change what it really is. He told me I have abandoned the family and refuse to live with them for eternity. I told him I still believe I will see my family after death and that we can be together. He did not agree.

He then asked how I was participating in church. I told him everything is still pretty much the same. I told him I still believe in God and want to do what is best for my family. He told me I am a hypocrite for doing this. He said I should go tell the bishop right now. I told him that could hurt my wife due to gossip in the ward. He seemed more angry and told me more about hypocrisy. I told him I know of a stake president who is rude to his wife and hits on young girls. I asked him who was the worse hypocrite and he said we are the same. I asked if I had an affair would that not be worse - and he didn't seem to think so. I was shocked and amazed and devastated.

He wants to meet me for lunch tomorrow. I asked if he would be willing to at least see where I'm coming from on historical issues. He refused to look at anti literature. I assured him that I would only bring up evidence that apologists know about without putting my interpretation of it. I will likely tell him briefly about Zina, Fanny, Lucy, and Helen just as you might find it on FAIR. I will tell him about the seer stones in the hat and the book of abraham. I have no desire to convince him of anything. I just want him to know what I've seen. My interpretation of the information is personal to me.

I would really appreciate comments from folks like Nevo, Ant, Tim, AI, and others on how I can help my TBM dad see the history without an "anti" slant. I need a way that does not scare him for this will be news to him, I'm sure.

To any others out there - thank you for listening to a troubled person that seems to keep getting himself into more trouble by the week.

I'm wondering whether it is worth it to find truth. It feels good to believe I have truth (while I'm alone) but the pain is severe when beliefs clash. I wonder if I would be happier being a Mormon android (smile) just pretending I believe and hoping I can. How can it be worth it? So I get to the outside and free myself but then I have to deal with family issues forever?

Thanks for listening.

Zee.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Zeezrom, my heart is breaking for you as I read about this. I have been somewhat alienated from my family as a result of my shift in belief, and it sounds like your situation is much worse than mine. I can't imagine how you must be feeling right now. Please know there are people here on the board who care and understand and with whom you can share.

Just a warning. If you share your historical evidence with him, he may take that as an attack. I know you want him to understand your decision, but it may be counterproductive. I suggest emphasizing that you feel compelled to your current position by your Mormon values (such as integrity and truth), and leaving it at that unless he specifically inquires about the specifics. Sometimes it is best to first let family members get used to the idea that you don't believe, and then only share your reasons if and when they ask. Then they can't blame you, because they're the ones who brought it up.

Good luck at lunch, and let us know how it goes.

Peace,

-Chris

[_dblagent007]

One thing you might want to try is to have him watch John Dehlin's video about why people leave the Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5Sx ... r_embedded

It is not anti or apologetic and sometimes helps people understand what you are going through.

[_Rambo]

Hey Zee,

Like Californiakid my heart is breaking as well. I am going through somewhat the same thing as you. Although, I do not have a wife and kids involved so I would imagine things are more difficult for you.

I would have to agree with Californiakids recommendation. I don't think your Dad will understand where you are coming from if you show him the things you are struggling with. I think the best thing to say is that you don't believe because you have never felt the spirit about the church. That you believe all those feelings just came from yourself. I assume you believe this? Anways, I don't think he can argue with this belief. Also tell him that he can't tell you what to believe in and it is up to you what you want to believe in.

My advice may be wrong though because I have not gone through these things.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Z,

Seriously your OP is all over the map.

You are either a TBM troll about to commit poster-cide due to hitting the bordem phase of your charade, or your are off your meds, or your father is very immature.

Seriously dude, your post is really not you.

Did someone hack your MDB account?

[_msnobody]

From what your father said, it seems to me that belief in Joseph Smith is foundational to your father's belief in the church and that the celestial family is very important to him as well. The conversation about hipocrisy leaves me with two thoughts. First, perhaps he has wish-thinking that you would confess to the bishop and return mentally and spiritually to the fold. Secondly, I wondered if you were to resign membership, would he still consider you a hypocrite?

My heart goes out to you Zeezrom. Many hugs to you.

I want to say something else too. We can't get our identity from others. I learned the hard way that people will always eventually let me down (not intentionally). I am not who the world would tell me that I am.

[_CaliforniaKid]

wtf, PP?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

wtf, PP?

I dunno.

His post was like he burst into the room and just was just talking a mile a minute. It just does now sound like Z.

The bit about doing poor in school then making up for it in college and now(in other posts) he is an engineer??

His father would rather see him cheat on his wife than have a wobbly testimony of Joe?

Z, is your father this much of an immature asshole?


C'mon folks, we don't know most of these people on a personal basis. I am not doubting Z, just am scratching my head over his opening post.

[_just me]

I thought your dad was coming to give you a blessing on Sunday. Strange developments.

[_Dr. Shades]

CALL HIM AND CANCEL!!

If you don't do this the first thing in the morning, I unequivocally GUARANTEE that you will regret it. MARK MY WORDS. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. Your father is NOT READY. It doesn't matter what you show him; he will reject it, no matter what it is. GUARANTEED.

CALL HIM AND CANCEL!!

Absolutely NOTHING good can come of a meeting with him tomorrow. DON'T DO IT. If you ignore this advice, I guarantee you that you'll regret it. Please, DON'T MAKE ME SAY "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Once again,

CALL HIM AND CANCEL!!