John Gee is a defender of lies

[_Nimrod]

Joseph Smith was in fact a liar and when he published his revelation to the world in the Times & Seasons that the name Shulem was contained in the hieroglyphic writing of Facsimile No. 3, he was knowingly telling a lie.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that Joseph did not really believe that he was inspired to translate a record, and thus genuinely believed that his translation was correct?

You've got a point, Joseph. Joseph Smith might very well have been that self-delusional to have genuinely believed his own billing.

[_harmony]

Can anyone show us which part of the scrolls The Church has is actually the writings of Abraham, Moses and the rest of the gang as Joseph Smith told folks it was?

Nothing matches, zzyzx. Ever since the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, Joseph has looked like a fool.

[_RockSlider]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that Joseph did not really believe that he was inspired to translate a record, and thus genuinely believed that his translation was correct?

Of course no one knows for sure what was in Joseph Smith's mind, but the following is also a distinct possibility:

Book of Mormon = reformed Egyptian
Mummy scrolls, known Egyptian
"Take em to Joseph, taken em to Joseph, he can translate them".

It had some pretty strong follower pressure in association with it. Maybe he cussed there discovery and them being brought to him. Did he even have a choice?

[_harmony]

It had some pretty strong follower pressure in association with it. Maybe he cussed there discovery and them being brought to him. Did he even have a choice?

Of course he had a choice. He could have said "these aren't written in Reformed Egyptian, so I can't translate them". Instead, he lied. Again.

[_RockSlider]

It had some pretty strong follower pressure in association with it. Maybe he cussed there discovery and them being brought to him. Did he even have a choice?

Of course he had a choice. He could have said "these aren't written in Reformed Egyptian, so I can't translate them". Instead, he lied. Again.

Yes, I was suggesting his ego got him.

[_harmony]

Of course he had a choice. He could have said "these aren't written in Reformed Egyptian, so I can't translate them". Instead, he lied. Again.

Yes, I was suggesting his ego got him.[/quote]

Agreed. The Book of Abraham is a result of his ego. Sec 132 is a result of his libido. And I have a horrible feeling that the Book of Mormon is a result of his imagination.

[_Paul Osborne]

Agreed. The Book of Abraham is a result of his ego. Sec 132 is a result of his libido. And I have a horrible feeling that the Book of Mormon is a result of his imagination.

Joseph’s imagination was as fertile as anything you can imagine. Harmony, just imagine if he had ordered you into his harem. Would you comply?

Bring Joseph Smith before me and I will smack him down.

John Gee defends lies. He is without honor. Do you hear me, John? Take Shulem and shove him up your Book of Abraham hole until it hurts.

Paul O

[_Joseph Antley]

How about you Joseph, are you of the thinking of missing portions or catalyst theory?

Book of Abraham apologetics isn't something I've looked extensively into, and so I haven't given it much thought. As for the problems specifically with the facsimiles, however, I am of the belief that either an ancient redactor or Joseph Smith reinterpreted them through inspiration. Just like Abraham adapted astrology/cosmology to teach Gospel principles to the Gentiles, and Paul used the Greek's "Unknown God" as a missionary tool to teach the Gentiles. Thus the traditional interpretation (and even original design) of the facsimiles has no impact on my testimony, and neither does Paul O.'s rants about them (sad though they are).

I love the Book of Abraham. Like others I find its contents to be the best evidence of Joseph Smith's inspiration.

[_zeezrom]

I love the Book of Abraham. Like others I find its contents to be the best evidence of Joseph Smith's inspiration.

Ant: So the reason you love the Book of Abraham is evidence of inspiration or is there something in the content that you love?

[_floatingboy]

Acceptance of the work as inspired amounts to whether or not the text successfully influences our lives, drawing us closer to God. For me it does.

i just finished watching "seven samurai". i find many of the messages it contains to be inspiring and moving.

some of doestoevsky's writing has the same effect.