John Gee is a defender of lies

[_Paul Osborne]

According to Hugh Nibley's faulty apologetics, these were two men dressed up like women. I hardly think John Gee believes this to be the case.

[_truth dancer]

Paul, you have a lot to offer the Book of Abraham discussion.

While others are trying to use every convoluted technique on the planet to twist and contort one thing to say another, you just tell it like it is. You have a way of getting to the point that makes all the apologetics meaningless. (And, for those of us, like myself who still after all these years finds the Book of Abraham to be a complete mess, you clear things up). :-)

As you suggest, it is about honesty and addressing the truth, even reality.

The truth is, Joseph Smith didn't know Egyptian. He didn't have a clue what he was doing. He wasn't inspired.

He made it up, deceived his devotees; he lied.

Thanks for your thoughts Paul...

~td~

[_zzyzx]

"Also this affair seems not have bothered the parents of fanny nor her brother since all were proud that fanny and joseph were sealed. And this feeling lasted until their deaths in Utah."

Just because she and her parents were OK with it does not change the fact Joseph was a child molester. The same as anyone molesting children or having a mistress... both parties and even their families being OK with it or being proud of it or even making money off it(see Elizabeth Smart & her damnable father) does not mean it is OK.

That you believe it is OK because those involved do brings into question your morals big time.

[_Redefined]

Joseph Smith may not have been able to translate them, but I declare right here and now, that God has inspired of me to translate this image for all the world, and declare his truth, so his one and only true church can go forth and prosper and be restored to its righteous glory before all inhabitants of the earth!

Lo and behold, the above scroll is a picture of Pharoah Edward the scissor-of-hands, and his mother the grand-dutchess of York, looking eastward, as they conjure up the spirit of our Lord in scissor-to-hand prayer. There ya have it. . . oh, the hats. . . err well, that was just the fashion of the day! "Red" meaning king and "yellow" meaning grand-dutchess.

[_truth dancer]

Hi ZZY,

"Also this affair seems not have bothered the parents of fanny nor her brother since all were proud that fanny and joseph were sealed. And this feeling lasted until their deaths in Utah."

Just because she and her parents were OK with it does not change the fact Joseph was a child molester. The same as anyone molesting children or having a mistress... both parties and even their families being OK with it or being proud of it or even making money off it(see Elizabeth Smart & her damnable father) does not mean it is OK.

That you believe it is OK because those involved do brings into question your morals big time.

Nice post. It reminded me of this article, Child Bride killed. Parents the world over, even right here in the US, sell, trade, and give their girls to older men. It is sickening, primitive, and cruel.

The fact that this happens doesn't make it OK.

~td~

Redefined.... LOL!

[_why me]

Just because she and her parents were OK with it does not change the fact Joseph was a child molester. The same as anyone molesting children or having a mistress... both parties and even their families being OK with it or being proud of it or even making money off it(see Elizabeth Smart & her damnable father) does not mean it is OK.

That you believe it is OK because those involved do brings into question your morals big time.

Of course you would downplay fanny's parents and her brother in all this. But the truth is, they did not see a nasty dirty affair. One reason for this could be that such an affair did not exist. Her parents were not ashamed to mention it even when they were in Utah. They were proud of the sealing.

Sorry if this does not fit your world view.

[_why me]

Nice post. It reminded me of this article, Child Bride killed. Parents the world over, even right here in the US, sell, trade, and give their girls to older men. It is sickening, primitive, and cruel.

The fact that this happens doesn't make it OK.

~td~

Redefined.... LOL!

And this proves what? Are you saying that her parents were poor specimens for parents. That they sold their daughter to Joseph, the child molester? Are you also saying that fanny's parents were primitive, sickening and cruel?

I had no idea that you knew them personally.

[_why me]

Paul, you have a lot to offer the Book of Abraham discussion.

What has he added to the discussion? I see nothing but ranting and raving. I see no discussion from Paul at all. I just see a guy who is not very peaceful and taking it all out the lds church and its leaders both past and present.

[_harmony]

[ But the truth is, they did not see a nasty dirty affair.

Just because they did not see it does not mean that it did not happen. Emma didn't see it either, but that doesn't negate the fact that Joseph married her maid, her friends, and her foster daughters behind her back.

[_floatingboy]

not as a defense of Joseph Smith, but i don't really see a ton of similarity between fannie and that poor yemeni girl. for one, fannie didn't get brutally raped and die. and didn't she at least consent? yes, i know she was still a minor. the age thing is about all i see in similarity. fannie 16, Joseph Smith 30. yemeni girl 13, depraved "husband", 50-something.

also, i have to agree that paul is not adding much to the Book of Abraham discussion, at least in this thread. maybe he is somewhere else? right, the name "shulem" isn't there in facsimile #3. i was familiar with that before it got said 17 times in this thread.